Uncle Vinny

[moonotmo]

Patriot said:

No worse than anyone else? You must have missed the Beheading link.

Ordinary muslims are no worse than anyone else. Muslim extremists are different, incase you haven't noticed. Not every muslim you see in the street is an Osama bin Laden, or an Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

Patriot said:

Scroll back, watch the videos, then tell me what other religion currently endorses such a practice in the name of God.

Well if I remember correctly, George Bush said that God told him to invade Iraq, resulting in 100,000 deaths...but I guess that's a different matter.

Patriot said:

Moon Boy, I'm glad that you've made as big a mess of this issue as you have. I should really be thanking you. Because, I am now finally going to open a thread of comparison and contrasts between the religious texts of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Verbatim. Not only will I show that Islam is behind modernity vis-a-vis its despicable religious practices, as in the case of beheadings and keeping women veiled, but I will also show--concretely--that the Islamic writings pose an interminable barrier to social progress, and that they are more restrictive than what is required or authorized in Hebraic and Christian texts.

Woo.

Patriot said:

You've said enough for today and like most liberals (...)

You think my opinions are just "liberal" opinions?! This isn't a liberal opinion mister; it's plain common sense! I'd be deeply troubled if Islamophobia is actually common amongst republicans.

Patriot said:

(...) have chosen to gloss over the most pertinent information (...)

The most pertinent information, as far as I'm concerned, is seeing the every-day muslims who play a constructive role in my community - not the stereotypes you seem to be following.

Patriot said:

At least the conservatives on this board will soon have enough information at their disposal to prove their points to individuals more concerned with obtaining the facts than defending a worn-out theory of tolerance for idiocy
run amok.

What information are you reciting?! You are taking the actions of extremists, and pointing to ordinary muslims and saying they are just as bad. They are not. The proof of that is outside: in the streets, in the community.

So far you have proved that muslim extremists are monstrous people - I'm not doubting that - but you're singling out ordinary muslims in the same manner. You haven't proved in any way, sense or form that these people are the horrible people you make them out to be.

Calling Islam "idiocy run amok" is no better than calling any other religion "idiocy run amok." It's just a plain stupid thing to do.

BOLO said:

First let me say that moonie has hurt my feelings.
She/it won't deign to reply to my post. Too good you know.
(Truth s she/it couldn't.} {Didn't have the answers}

I gave you my answers. But when I saw you dismiss any evidence to back them up as just "distorting the truth," there's no way I could possibly win any kind of argument with you. Just accuse everything I say as a distortion of a truth, and you've won your argument! Woohoo! That makes life easy.

Why the hell should anyone argue with you, when all you do is wave your magic "you're lying!!!" wand?

BOLO said:

If you were posting to someone with sense and logic, someone that could understand and comprehend out side borders of their self made and induced fantasies, then you might have something.

Fantasies eh? So on the global warming topic, am I just fantasizing about my local river's water level getting higher over recent years? Am I just fantasizing about our winters getting warmer with less snow over recent years? Am I just fantasizing about seeing muslims in my community?

These aren't freakin' fantasies! Holy how...

BOLO said:

As to moonie. A belief that she/it is better and more knowledgeable than anyone else is self evident,

Where? I do know more things about other people on certain topics, and other people know more things than me on others. If someone proves something to me that is not in-line with my own opinions, I am willing to accept it.

The reason you haven't noticed that yet, is because you are nothing short of being completely incapable of doing such a thing.

BOLO said:

(...) as is her lack of education and intelligence.

Show me where is that self evident, then. I could say that "your continuous bed-wetting is self evident", but unless I show why, it doesn't hold much water.

BOLO said:

Her world is colored and contained by the parameters she/it established for her self in her liberal induced world of doom and gloom.

There's nothing liberal about what I have posted in this topic, at all.

BOLO said:

(Another note to moonie, I told you if you want to believe the sky is falling do so. England is a Semi Free Country you can still freely, without fear, be a complete and total idiot and suffer no consequences.)

Semi-free? As opposed to your "fully-free" country? Please. Let's grow out of this "Land Of The Free™" bullcrap. There are several hundred countries in the world; to think you are this special "Freedom" place where everything is "Free" is darn right stupid.

At least here, we are able to follow religions of our choice - we aren't discriminated against should we be a muslim, which unfortunately (judging by this topic alone, mind) seems to be the fashion these days over there.

BOLO said:

You are indeed a poor loser. When confronted you digress or retreat.

I haven't retreated once. I gave up with you in my last post towards you, since any truths or facts brought forward are just brushed right off your back. Arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall.

BOLO said:

I told you then I was not going back to that thread and I never did.

And that is not retreating, I assume. Because when you do it, it's a whole different thing.

BOLO said:

I now leave you in this thread for anyone that desires to post to and with you on this thread.
It is a waste of time as you have nothing to offer.

I've made plenty of points in this thread on a few issues. I've also seen you ignore them.

For the global warming issue, I'll ask again. Who knows, maybe you'll actually give me a response this time. Heck, anything could happen, I guess.

Why would many government reports indicate the existance of global warming? What would governments have to gain by spending money on developing "clean" forms of energy?

Why would anyone distort the truth regarding this issue to show a false problem, let alone many important and highly regarded organizations?

Why? Because they are evil and want to scare everyone? Because they want to see how far a joke spreads, before yelling out "JOKE" and making us embarrased for believing them? Because they want to put oil-mines out of business?

If they are deliberatly misleading, or distorting the truth, why the hell would they do it?

[Patriot]

Bolo, Scrap, Ian, et al.,

No real need to reply to Moon Woman's ravings. Perhaps the "Land of the Free" should have left Britain on its own in WWII, instead of risking the provision of so many ships loaded with materials to be sunk by German Uboats. No need for any of us to get riled at this point. Britain is as Britain always was, a semi-free, Magna-Carta based region of paltry Lords and Earls.

You know, this is a great example of how remiss the liberal mind truly is. Moon Woman wouldn't ever think to compare the Magna Carta or English Constitution with the American Constitution. If she did, she would be forced to concede the fact that the US is indeed the land of the free. But that's too much to expect, I fear. It warms my heart just knowing that truth and logic are on our side!

[Patriot]

Incidentally,

moonotmo said:

If I remember correctly, George Bush said that God told him to invade Iraq, resulting in 100,000 deaths...but I guess that's a different matter.

George Bush said no such thing. Nor have 100,000 people died on either side. Cease with the sloppy equivocation if you expect to engage in an intelligent discussion, moron.

[UncleVinny]

The "Great Unraveling" is in full swing now:

Republican Tom Biden indicates now things are going terribly wrong in Iraq. More troops needed while resistence to going over there is increasing. An "unwinnable" quagmire in Iraq. Now bush lost the allegiance of Putin. Blair will soon follow, and there will be no one to support the war, exept right-wing extremists.

Now bush is trying to edit the Bible

Isaiah 2:4
“And they shall hammer their swords into ‘bunker-buster’ nuclear weapons, and never will they learn peace again.”<br>
Matthew 22:39
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself, except if they are in the NAACP, an environmentalist, or live in a red state.”<br>
Matthew 5:44
“Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, and if they don’t come around, invade their country, kill their people, and take over their oil fields.”<br>
Matthew 5:35
“Do not resist him who is evil. Instead recruit young, impressionable patriots, and let them do the fighting.”<br>
1 John 4:7
“Let us love one another, for love is from God, unless it’s gay love, which is from Satan.”<br>
Matthew 5:5
“Blessed are the energy corporations, as they shall inherit the earth, starting with the Alaska wilderness preserves.”<br>
Proverbs 22:7
“The rich rules over the poor, and the borrower becomes the lenders’ slave. But with any luck, you can pass on massive budget deficits to the next generation.”

Taken from
www.sorryworld4bush.com

[Patriot]

We've already mopped the floor of Moony's stupidity and it won't take too long to do the same here with Vinny. He writes,


^{Things are going terribly wrong in Iraq. More troops needed while resistence to going over there is increasing. An "unwinnable" quagmire in Iraq. Now bush lost the allegiance of Putin. Blair will soon follow, and there will be no one to support the war, exept right-wing extremists.}


Aside from the fact that Tom Biden was never in combat and doesn't have a clue about what constitutes a dire situation, see Military Discussion thread for a concise history of the American penchant for victory against all manner of odds. We've won every time due to superior training and superior equipment. Even in Vietnam, we walked away with victory because the NVA collapsed in the subsequent years following our withdrawal. We have never lost a war and never will.


^{Now Bush is trying to edit the Bible.}


Really? Please provide documentation for that claim. Otherwise, it will be viewed for what it truly is-- a lie. How can you possibly believe that your liberal hogwash is benefited by outright falsehoods? It casts a very dim shadow on your mental capacity for clear comprehension of world events, to say nothing of your dishonest character.

You see, liberals are the first to accuse conservatives of "stereotypes", "generalizations", and "false claims". But clearly, liberals are not above using all these vices to further their own political aims. Case in point, Vinny's claim that Bush is attempting to edit the Bible. Hypocrites to the max.

Nothing you say holds a single iota of legitimacy, and the only thing we're sorry for is the fact that your mother chose not to have you aborted. ;D

[moonotmo]

Patriot said:

No real need to reply to Moon Woman's ravings.

I've made plenty of replies to you that are completely rational, yet you have not replied to them.

Do they not count?

Patriot said:

Perhaps the "Land of the Free" should have left Britain on its own in WWII, instead of risking the provision of so many ships loaded with materials to be sunk by German Uboats. No need for any of us to get riled at this point.

Yes, that was a while ago now. You can't use the "we helped them in WWII!!!" excuse for everything.

Patriot said:

Britain is as Britain always was, a semi-free, Magna-Carta based region of paltry Lords and Earls.

Perhaps you missed the point in my original post, and therefore you chose to reply.

When you say you would "pull a Kabar and make [muslims] choke on [their] own tongue," do you honestly believe that the muslims you assult have Freedom™ of religion in America?

There may be no such laws banning muslims in America, hence why you like to proclaim your Freedom™ across the planet, but when you say you'd do such things to muslims as what I just quoted, how do you even think that is Freedom™ of religion for them?

I can only hope that you are alone in the beliefs that muslims should be alienated and choked for your own pleasure. Though it does seem that you'd like to see your country unite in hatred for such people

Is that meant to be Free™? Or does Freedom™ belong to Christians only?

Patriot said:

George Bush said no such thing.

I traced the quote back to its origins and it seems to have come from the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, though their website has no mention of it. It could have been said in the newspaper and not posted online. And then there's the issue of whether they made it up or not.

The exact quote reads "God told me to strike at al-Qaida and I struck them, and then He instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did..."

Though it does sound like the kind of thing Bush would say. I know that I, for one, certainly wouldn't be surprised by it.

Patriot said:

Nor have 100,000 people died on either side. Cease with the sloppy equivocation if you expect to engage in an intelligent discussion, moron.

That's why I said "if I remember correctly", dickcrap.

If I was sure about it, I would simply have stated it. I added the statement "if I remember correctly" to indicate that I was reciting from memory, and I may have remembered incorrectly. Hence the words "if I remember correctly."

It isn't hard to understand. Do try.

(I was of course referring to the recent study that had concluded that 100,000 civillians have died in the Iraq war, hence why I felt no need to provide a link or such. I would however be interested to hear a response to the study, whether it be in your own writing, or someone else's that pin-points the problems in the 100,000-killed claim.)

Patriot said:

We've already mopped the floor of Moony's stupidity (...)

Ok, where to start.

I've replied to every single one of your posts aimed at me, and continue to do so. You haven't mopped any floor with my stupidity, because you've so far failed to prove anything. Your logic has severe holes in it, that when asked, you seem to be completely unable to fill. A while ago I got the idea that your logic was this:
Islam teaches a few bad things, therefore, every muslim is evil, and they intend to kill us all.
Yet you've yet to actually show how you've reached the conclusion "muslims are evil, and intend to kill us all" from the assumption "Islam teaches a few bad things." You've completely jumped from one thing to something else, leaving this huge gaping hole in your reasoning.

I could very well say say:
My car didn't start this morning, therefore, that random person on the other side of the street wants to kill me.
It's the same thing. It's drawing one conclusion from something completely unrelated, without filling in any of the blindingly obvious gaps. If I had said:
My car didn't start this morning. There was a shifty-looking person on the other side of the street, and he could have fiddled with my car's brakes, and inadvertently broken my whole car, therefore not enabling it to start. He wanted to kill me by fiddling with my car's brakes.
It fills in the gaps, see? It doesn't mean my argument is correct, and in that example there are many holes in the actual argument (it wasn't necessarily that person who fiddled with it/maybe he did want to kill me, but my car's just crap/maybe he only looks shifty because he was just in a punch-up/etc). But at least I've shown my reasoning, and how I came to my conclusion. I'd that you could now understand how I came to the conclusion "the man wants me dead" from the information "my car didn't start this morning." And if you still didn't see how I came to the conclusion, I could elaborate further to assist you in seeing my reasoning.

Now, let's start with "Islam teaches a few bad things" (that I'm still waiting to see). Now then, from this alone, you've made the claim "Islam is false. Plain and simple", as well as having the idea that "pulling a Kabar and making muslims choke on their own tongue" is justified.

I replied, making the claim that that is not justified, as being fascist and assulting people because they belong to a specific religion is wrong. It'd be the same as attacking people in the street upon finding out they are Christian, Jewish, Hindu, or (insert religion of choice here). I want to know how you could possibly consider this to be justified.

You replied, saying that Islam is a bad religion that teaches a few things. Boom! We didn't track the route that you followed to get to your conclusions. We got lost on the way, turned around, and went back to where we started.

I've asked a page or two back for how you draw your conclusions, but since you have provided absolutely nothing to show how you've done so, I'll ask again. I don't know why I'm bothering, really, it's largely a waste of time.

So let's just stop reciting how naughty muslims are and how their religion is lies and all that, because that's growing tiresome; it was funny at first, but now it's just tedious.

And you've "mopped the floor of my stupidity"?! Erm, whatever.

Patriot said:

It warms my heart just knowing that truth and logic are on our side!

I'd like to see the holes in my logic. If you had pointed them out instead of just saying "logic is on our side!", it would have made you look less silly. It seems that throwing buzz-words like that around are common place in your posts.

At least the conservatives on this board will soon have enough information at their disposal to prove their points to individuals more concerned with obtaining the facts than defending a worn-out theory of tolerance for idiocy run amok.
Moon Boy, I'm glad that you've made as big a mess of this issue as you have.
It warms my heart just knowing that truth and logic are on our side!
Hypocrites to the max.
Roar!

[Patriot]

Moon Woman,


You're really nothing more than a misinformed loudmouth.


^{I've made plenty of replies to you that are completely rational, yet you have not replied to them. Do they not count?}


Much as I'd enjoy sifting through your inumerable platitudes of ignorance, I'm afraid I simply don't have time. But I will respond to what you've stated in your most recent post. You wrote,


^{... being fascist and assulting people because they belong to a specific religion is wrong. It'd be the same as attacking people in the street upon finding out they are Christian, Jewish, Hindu...}


Are you aware that Muslims do that very thing, against those very religious groups?

When peaceful negotiation with stubborn, misguided Muslims is rejected on religious grounds, they choose to induce what they themselves dish out-- namely, aggression. There's a legal term for it, called "scales of justice". Ever hear of it? Evidently not.


^{There may be no such laws banning muslims in America, hence why you like to proclaim your Freedom™ across the planet, but when you say you'd do such things to muslims as what I just quoted, how do you even think that is Freedom™ of religion for them?}


We will not provide freedom to those whose ultimate goal is to encroach on the liberties of others. All in-bred Americans are vested with inalienable rights sanctioned by the government, among these life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, according to our Declaration. That holds true for all peaceful immigrants as well. If they choose to contribute to the growth of our society and respect our ideals, they may partake in what this country has to offer. But, if they come with the intent to alter our culture or destroy our pillars of civilization (as Islam in general does: see my "Islam, Christianity, and Judaism" thread in the next few weeks), then they will by no means be provided with the tools necessary to do so.


^{Is that meant to be Free™? Or does Freedom™ belong to Christians only?}


In our quest to provide freedom and protection to Buddhist, Hindu, and Jewish immigrants (as well as guard our own Christian heritage), we have no choice but to level the axe when necessary, as Islam poses both an ideological and militant threat against all of the above. Peaceful Muslims are just as intolerant as Militant Muslims, the difference being that the latter takes judgment into their own hands, whereas the former provides financial support for, and makes no secret of desiring, the destruction of all who are not Islamic.


^{That's why I said "if I remember correctly", dickcrap. If I was sure about it, I would simply have stated it. I added the statement "if I remember correctly" to indicate that I was reciting from memory, and I may have remembered incorrectly. Hence the words "if I remember correctly." It isn't hard to understand. Do try.}


That's nice. But here we appreciate facts, not faulty memories. Bottom line is that you didn't remember correctly. Therefore, until you have your facts straight, don't pretend that your faulty remembrance of a lie constitutes factual information.

[UncleVinny]

Get a grip Pathos Patriot!

That bible edit thing is called "sarcasm" . . . it's a device used by people to poke fun and ridicule policies by exeggerating them. Of course bush won't edit the bible, but his policies show how hypocritical he is to say he's a man of God, then turn around and kill thousands of people for the sake of oil and Halliburton.

Check out the photos . . .
www.sorryworld4bush.com/galleries.html

[Patriot]

How interesting, Vinny. Why are you telling me to get a grip on reality when, by your own admission, you are here simply to:

^{... poke fun and ridicule policies by exeggerating them.}

How about you look at things for what they really are, instead of purposely misconstruing the political and military aims of the US.

Show me a single gallon of oil that we have unjustly taken from Iraqi soil during this war.

[UncleVinny]

To be honest, Pathios, it's an act of kindness.

I see my laying out of a belief system as threatening to you, and to show a system of behavior that is undermining to your beliefs is truly disconcerting, and would generate a lot of pain. It's like ridiculing someone's religion - beliefs they have held dear, but are not working. If you believed in the old "eye for an eye" moral structure, and I could show you with patience and care that this new moral code of forgiveness and brotherhood was far superior to the old system, and this new system generated a lot more peace and civil behavior, the I think being a wise person you would soon embrace the new philosophy.

But on a forum like this, with hardcore adherents to the old eye-for-eye values, there is no chance of being patient and caring, so the least painful way of awakening some of the old hard-liners is to show the hipocricy, show how connecting the dots just doesn't work in the old system, as we end up with a lot of blind people, then maybe with reflection, insight , and honest evaluation of the old value system, we might make some progress. I hope my honesty is not too painful for you.

[Patriot]

Vinny,

That looks like a diversion. How about you do as I asked and show me a single gallon of oil that the US has unjustly taken from Iraqi soil during this war.

I fail to see how an admittedly biased interpretation of world events equates to an "act of kindness". In fact, that is a dichotomy of disassociated variables.

If you think that Islam presents a "better system" under which to live, think again. And stay tuned to my Islam, Christianity, and Judaism thread. So far you've presented nothing of concrete legitimacy.

[MO]

Moon person posts lies. She isn't American, anyway.

Vinny comes up with one post and uses the same words in multiple posts. Typical, lazy liberal.

They're both irrelevant.

[Patriot]

I beg to differ. Irreverent yes, irrelevant no. They speak for the liberal end of America and the liberal mentality of the world. Their claims illustrate the faulty footing of our detractors.

[UncleVinny]

No the 'better system' I refer to is not Islam.
In fact I'd call it a more evolved form or Christianity - like I mentioned, brotherhood and fellowship.

Just think of the case of the school bully.
Old system: find and even tougher bully and beat the crap out of him. That seems to be the bush policy. So then the bully goes to get a gun, and they cycle escalates.

New system: you neutralize the bully without violence = = you monitor him, you apply social pressure, you put sanctions in place - in brief, you use your head to come up with any number of non-violent approaches.

I KNOW it's no great leap to see how this might apply to Iraq. But instead, we have a shoot-em-up cowboy who cannot even conceive of a diplomatic solution.

[Vagrant]

Your devotion to non-violence is commendable, Vinny. However, even you have to admit that non-violence has to stop at some point.