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Post by TNRighty on Jun 24, 2004 17:30:05 GMT -5
The single most paramount responsibility of the citizens in a free country is to educate themselves on the issues, be it national defense, the economy, or other domestic and international concerns. Without an independently minded electorate, politicians can run willy nilly spewing whatever falsehoods will get them elected. Sadly, we have too many Americans who are completely oblivious to these issues. How else could over 50% of Americans actually believe the economy is bad? If you know absolutely squat about economics, how do you know what to believe? "John Kerry said so." Well, John Kerry wants to be president, so he's gonna tell you exactly what you want to hear. Educated people can be governened responsibly, and they'll see to it. Uneducated people are herded like sheep and exploited unbeknownst to themselves. Ignorance is bliss, and its dangerous. Politicians who prey on the ignorant have only themselves in mind. They care not about what's best for their constituency, only what perpetuates and expands their power. The only way to get the truth from a politician is for them to know that you in fact know what's going on. You must be educated. You must know for yourself what is true and what is not. For example, I make my living as a structural engineer. I could tell a banker that the floor underneath his feet is going to collapse from under him if he doesn't move the water fountain to the other side of the room. He'd probably stop what he's doing and go move the fountain. Why?...because he has no understanding of structural mechanics and would assume that I'm telling him the truth. That would be irresponsible of me, and I'd never do that, but politicans do it all the time. They, especially Democrats, assume you are completely ignorant and need to be told what to do and when to do it. You're puddy in their hands, and they can shape you in the way they want. They tell you that the Bush tax cuts are going to bankrupt the economy. They assume you have no idea whatsoever that federal revenue has actually increased and that the economy is growing at a rate unseen in 20 years. They care nothing about facts, only perception, and they think they can create for you a perception that will sympathize you to their stance. Its like the kid running for 10th grade class president who promises free cokes to anyone who votes for him. He doesn't care about you. He only wants to be president. On the national scale, Democrats are not that different. Democrats promise handouts; only its not free cokes. Its health care, welfare checks, retirement benefits, child tax credits, etc. How quickly we forget JFK's, "Ask not what your country can do for you....." Too many Americans seek not to lead this country, they want rather to be led, protected, comforted by government.
Sorry for the wandering rant. I just needed to get some stuff off my chest.
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Post by Peanut on Jun 25, 2004 13:20:12 GMT -5
That same arguement can be used by liberals AGAINST conservatives, just replace Democrats with Republicans and John Kerry with George Bush.
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Post by TNRighty on Jun 25, 2004 16:09:37 GMT -5
True, I didn't say that Republicans don't do that sort of stuff. They do, but right now most of it is coming from the Democrats. They create false perceptions of the economy, the war in Iraq, the Hussein-al Quaida connection, on and on. I'm just saying that the voters should be informed so they won't be taken advantage of by anyone, Democrat or Republican.
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Post by rush22 on Jun 26, 2004 13:36:05 GMT -5
You want to talk false perceptions of the economy? How about that more than 2 million manufacturing jobs have been lost since Bush took office, and they are at their lowest levels since the Great Depression. An entire day's worth of production has been lost. The economy is in the toilet, and has been for the past four years. Debt is at it's highest level ever. Bush spent all the money he was saving for social security and more. At the end of his term Clinton had stopped the debt from increasing. In 2000 the debt was steady at about 5.6 trillion dollars.As soon Bush stepped in, debt increased at it's highest rate in US history! This June, debt has increased by almost a quarter of a trillion dollars. [/color] The deficit is now so big that the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has issued releases that state that the huge deficits Bush is running could cause international market instability. Bush's tax cuts were put on America's credit card, not from dropping government programs or from magical fairy money that came from nowhere. It was money that was borrowed--AND A LOT WAS FROM COMMUNIST CHINA! The US is now borrowing money from communists! By 2010, Bush's plan is that a full half all that borrowed money is going to go to the top 1% of earners! Sure, everyone would like their taxes to go down, but at the expense of putting America indebted to communists?! His new budget has broken records on deficits.
So, yes, while the job situation may be very slowly getting better, you are the one with the false perceptions that the economy is in good shape. It's not. It's on life support.
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Post by rush22 on Jun 26, 2004 13:36:20 GMT -5
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Post by MO on Jun 26, 2004 16:50:02 GMT -5
Do you really think people are going to read your links to liberal drivel? NYT, now there is a reliable source.   |
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Post by rush22 on Jun 27, 2004 6:27:25 GMT -5
Wow. Thanks for making my point for me, MO.  |
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Post by MO on Jun 27, 2004 11:38:50 GMT -5
Making what point? That liberals think they can find "truth" in the pages of the NY Times? What ever! |
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Post by rush22 on Jun 27, 2004 12:42:36 GMT -5
Check the sources again. If you disregard the NYT article (which you can, since I gave a link directly to the actual IMF report), then the only sites you can call 'liberal drivel' are the ones with the debt graph and the one with the tax cut graph. They have sources too--that you can verify. The only thing you can question me on is the borrowing of money from China. You can fault me for not being 100% on that. But for some reason I think you're happier sitting on the couch eating cheesy-poofs... |
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Post by MO on Jun 27, 2004 13:22:45 GMT -5
Typical liberal. You are in the know and everyone else is just stupid or not informed. That statement of yours really illustrates your pompous elitism.
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Post by rush22 on Jun 27, 2004 14:43:49 GMT -5
Well apparently I'm right, since you haven't checked the sources, and instead you insist on discrediting them. I'll give you one last chance before I make you look like a complete fool. Read the sources.
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Post by MO on Jun 27, 2004 15:32:25 GMT -5
You'll do nothing of the kind! If you want a debate, come up with some kind of intelligent reasoning on your own, in your own words. Debate does not consist of dictating to people about what they should read.
Don't threaten me! I'm not in a good mood!
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Post by rush22 on Jun 27, 2004 16:31:19 GMT -5
Ok. I shouldn't have been so threatening, but would you please look at the sources. They're not 'liberal drivel'.
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Post by MO on Jun 28, 2004 15:58:04 GMT -5
At this point, we have insourced more jobs than we have outsourced. The more protectionist countries have a much higher unemployment rate and a lower growth rate. The more free the market, the more free the people. Ask the nice folks who work for BMW, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, to name just a few, if they are happy with our trade policies. The US is doing very well in biotech, IT and the US leads the world in the production of pharmaceuticals.
In 1999, when we were hearing all the rhetoric about a "surplus", the published National Debt figure rose by $124 billion dollars. I do fault Bush for his disgusting domestic spending, such as the Medicare expansion, but we are at war! I certainly don't fault the federal government for spending money on the one thing they are allowed, under the Constitution, to collect and spend money on.
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Post by BOLO on Jun 29, 2004 9:58:19 GMT -5
Is the glass half full or half empty? A Liberal such as peanut, and rush22 see it half empty. More to the point they do not see the faucett close by to fill the glass. This rush22 individual lives in a cut, and paste, full of links world. Rather than present his ideas with foundation he presents what he believes to be the foundation, and then some comments on or about it. His philosophy is obvious, overwhelm with facts, and drown with errata. Boring. He is also so one sided there is only facade, no depth. The statement about switching the posistions misses the point that Liberals can not support their contentions over time. They all go away. No matter what the economic condition, it will change. The core discussion is, what causes that change? Democrat or Republican ideas. NO. Conservative economics win out every time. Name one Liberal Program that was started suceeded, then died the natural death it should have enjoyed. There are none, every one of those programs is an unconstitutional application of power by Liberals, and all are drains on the tax payer, and the system. Not one ever suceeded. Not one.  |
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