|
|
Post by rush22 on Jul 3, 2004 23:52:23 GMT -5
Of course I'm not going to respond to your stupid opinion. That's also why I said MO, and not BOLO. "In what could spell the start of a trend, Toyota began manufacturing the Voltz sports wagon in the United States last year for sale in Japan." Well I'm sorry I didn't know about the 1 model that is began being manufactured in the US 2 years ago. You got me, good one.  You do realize I was just guessing out of frustration, right? YOU DIDN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION YET AGAIN. IT IS A YES OR NO QUESTION. You say I don't understand, yet you refuse to even say I'm wrong. There are many more people here who do not seek the truth and prefer to remain blind. Witness MO who called the Bureau of Labor and Statistics and the Bureau of Public Debt 'liberal drivel' and who implied the IMF was biased against itself. Witness those who propagandize the economy as in great shape. Those who propagandize an enemy defeated, where men's heads are cut off at their whim, those who propagandize the deceit of a leader as mere misinterpretation, who switch the reason American soldiers are dying at the drop of a hat. I'm sorry sir, but it is those people who are blind. |
|
|
|
Post by BOLO on Jul 4, 2004 10:23:08 GMT -5
Would you like French Cries with your Whine? You lost, and you don't have a response. Bottom line. No answer. Poor loser as well as Poor Liberal. Everything you do is out of frustration. The above is proof that you seldom know what you are talking about. You just talk about it. When you spout Dogma you seldom have foundation for it. As usual you missed a point, does that sound like ONE car. This sentence was part of the Quote, you went right by it. The Volz was the start. The fact that MO and the rest of us call the Gov Bureaucracies numbers drivel is proof we do see. You see one side of the coin. You see the Gov as the Gospel, you accept what buttresses your opinion, and Ideology, and ignore everything else, like common sense. Over the years the Gov has been proved wrong. Many departments inflate or deflate numbers, to make themselves look good or prove a point they are trying to make. As a result most of us cast a jaundiced eye at what they say. The Gov is very very Fallible, and makes many mistakes. Try not whining or losing your temper. Try looking at both side of a coin. Ahhh...never mind, some day you may mature.  |
|
|
|
Post by TNRighty on Jul 4, 2004 10:57:10 GMT -5
TNRighty, Toyotas manufactured in the US for Americans isn't outsourcing by Japan. Outsourcing would be if Americans were manufacturing Toyotas and sending them back to Japan, which they aren't. Maybe you need to read my post again. I don't care what does and does not constitute "outsourcing". To me its nothing but an intentionally undefinable hollow liberal buzz-word that they can use to create all sorts of uproar. But again, thats not the issue here. Like I said, all this can be explained by simple economics. Money is like water, it flows through the path of least resistance, so to speak. If you can do the job better or cheaper, the money will find you regardless of where you live. This is not a political issue, but it does not at all surprise me that liberals are trying to politicize it. Next time you liberals start bellyaching about there not being any jobs available, grab a newspaper and open it to the classified ads. You'll find hundreds of jobs. They might not all pay $20 an hour, but there are jobs out there. If you don't like the pay, instead of griping at the employer, go take a look in the mirror. If you're working a shovel or flipping burgers for $7.50 an hour, theres probably a good reason for it. Contrary to what liberals claim, you do not have a right to a job. You have a right to educate yourself and develop a set of attractive job skills and then take those skills to the market and sell yourself to a prospective employer. You also have a right to sit on your ass, do drugs, and live in a box if you so choose. |
|
|
|
Post by rush22 on Jul 4, 2004 12:34:35 GMT -5
BOLO why are you giving me such a hard time?
|
|
|
|
Post by rush22 on Jul 4, 2004 12:56:03 GMT -5
TNRighty: Yes, outsourced is a hollow word. Outsourcing is the name for the trend in which companies lay off their workers and set up shop in a different country. These workers can be said to be "outsourced" for a limited period of time, as they are affected by the trend. After a while, it becomes ridiculous to call them "outsourced" because they are no longer connected to the company from which they were laid off. I agree; describing workers are "outsourced" is hollow. On the other hand, "outsourcing", as a verb for the actions of a company is perfectly acceptable. Companies do outsource jobs, it's just that those that are affected by the trend should not be called "outsourced," as it is mistaken connection.
I agree to your second point, you don't have a right to a job. No liberals who aren't idiots would think that. I personally think the government should intervene with regulation for example, when companies lay off huge numbers of workers to keep the economy stable, and to help those that pay taxes who expect the government to keep the economy stable. This is just a difference of opinion in politics.
|
|
|
|
Post by TNRighty on Jul 4, 2004 14:28:53 GMT -5
Now we're getting somewhere. I understand what you're talking about, but remember that "setting up shop" overseas is often nothing more than a simple change of address. Keep that in mind next time you hear someone report Company A is relocating overseas.
|
|
|
|
Post by BOLO on Jul 4, 2004 17:52:35 GMT -5
Can't handle the heat? Can't respond? Too much for you? Want me to go easy? You ever, ever, figure you give others a hard time? You are born. Life is hard, then you die. Which part do you not understand. I do not want the Government interfering with MY LIFE, or the Free Enterprise system. You represent someone that does. You want the Gov meddling in every aspect of my life. As to that. Patrick Henry said it best. Give me Liberty or give me death. Look up Liberty. It does not mention Government interference. Biggest thing. Try standing up on your own two legs, don't ask the furschenslinger Gov to support you. As to jobs going overseas, so what. Prove through research that, that has had a long lasting negative effect. What you will find, is that is has NOT. Newer jobs, more technologically advanced, and higher paying, as a result come along to fill the void. More Entrepreneurs are created, and more small businesses sprout, as people compensate. This is the biggest whine Liberal's have, and it ignores the facts. You Libs never look past the guy who lost his job. You never see that he, and many others, get a new one, or a better one, or start their own business. In other words, They overcome, they adapt, they survive, and they don't need you or the Gov to do it. They need you, and the Gov, to GET OUT of their way and let them prosper.  |
|
|
|
Post by TNRighty on Jul 4, 2004 18:24:55 GMT -5
Amen, BOLO!!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by rush22 on Jul 5, 2004 1:53:52 GMT -5
Sure I can.
What would I respond to? All you did was attack me. No argument for me there. I find it strange you would ask this, when you wouldn't even respond to a yes or no question.
No, not really.
I just want to know where you're coming from.
Yeah sure I do, all the time. The difference is, that I don't think I attack their values or their personality. I want to see the truth, as in the facts, not the values they represent. I want to know what the deal is when it comes to the state of the economy for example. I trust neither conservatives who say it is in great shape, nor do I trust liberals who say it is in bad shape. I have assessed the situtation for myself, and presented the information on which I based my assessment. I agree that it is in bad shape, which just so happens to be a common perception amongst many Americans.
I think your political views are obvious.
And I appreciate your negative personal attack. It helps your argument.
Intuition tells me it will and has had a negative effect. It's just my opinion. I don't think it is a coincidence that as more jobs move overseas, and are not replaced in the US, the economy will suffer as a result. Additionally I believe there are other negative effects that I'm sure you couldn't care less about. We're two different people.
Of course, it is capitalism isn't it? So far, the void has not been filling quickly, and in the past 4 years has grown considerably.
Maybe some don't. I see jobs as an important part of running the country and the economy, and it is possible that the government may need to help in this aspect to encourage new job growth. That's my opinion, it doesn't have to be yours.
|
|
|
|
Post by BOLO on Jul 5, 2004 11:30:24 GMT -5
Rushh22 What you have said in your discourse is this: You don't have any facts, you have no foundation for your assertions and you are GUESSING at results. That pretty much sums up Liberals, and their believes. I for one have grown tired of your childish attitude, and whining. You want to establish rules where you have no standing to do so. You perceive everything as a personal attack, and have no refutation for what is said. Others may respond. I for one will ignore you, as you should be. You have nothing to offer, and you are entirely too juvenile. Sayonara. |
|
|
|
Post by rush22 on Jul 5, 2004 14:44:21 GMT -5
You sir, are one of the prime causes of divisiveness in America today. Your venomous attacks and blanket statements do nothing to foster a relationship and do more to promote violence and anger. You have no idea how to debate or discuss the issues, and instead rely on tactics based on intentional misinterpretation and vulgar displays of hatred and character assassination. You rely on purposeful hypocrisy to pre-emptively misdirect accusations. You are a bully of grade school form, and respect the opinions of noone but yourself.
If you have a problem with what I say and how I say it, please tell me. I try as hard as I can not to be an intellectual bully, and support as much as I can with facts and links to those facts. I try hard to respect the opinions and values of the people I am talking with. I try to frame my arguments so they can be as open as possible to debate. I try to point out faulty arguments, or facts of questionable veracity of others. At the same time I try extremely hard not to confuse or trick people into agreeing with my side using faux-rational argument, or try to force them into agreement with my values, principles, or politics with argument instead of my facts or opinions; in fact I believe this is one of the most deplorable things you can do in an argument.
I am searching for the truth, and am stating my opinion which is based on the facts that I see. Everything I write is my opinion.
I sincerely apologize if I have failed to be genuine in my attempts to be as neutral as possible. I am here because I want the truth. I cannot get the truth on many liberal boards, and I enjoy coming here for another perspective.
However, as a liberal, I will always point out when someone justifies an opinon based on faulty facts, or a faulty argument, I will point it out. They are free to continue having that opinion, but I would like them to know that the argument that they trust as truth is flawed in a way, or the fact they trust as truth is false in a way. In particular, I point out statistics that may have been misinterpreted, or I point out hypocrisy, or I point which facts which in my opinion, while important, are missing from the argument. I believe that a large problem in much of political discussions is that some people are unwilling to agree on not just established truths (as those are more likely to be argued as opinion), but established facts which are on solid ground. The result is that the discussion becomes more heated, and debate and discussion becomes stalled while the participants are busy backing up their facts, or attacking each other, instead of arguing their opinions based upon those facts.
For example, if I say that 2 million people have lost jobs in manufacturing, and that means the economy is bad, that is my opinion. It should be obvious that my view is that the economy is heavily dependent on those manufacturing jobs. Research I'm sure shows this, and history shows this. However, if one wishes to argue the economy is not dependent on manufacturing jobs, it is their burden of proof as my position is well-established as well as being intuitive. One may argue that we are entering a sevice-economy, where manufacturing jobs are no longer as important, but to ask me to prove that the economy is heavily dependent on manufacturing jobs is to ask almost the impossible. I do not have the time, or the access, to research such a huge economic question, and I would think history speaks for itself regarding a society's means of production.
So again, if I have seemed mean when it comes the way I argue, I can only tell you that it is not my intent, and people can feel free to point it out to me if I do it. In terms of getting angry, well it's only human that when someone stonewalls me that I may lash out in anger at their stubbornness, their irrationality, their personal attacks, or their stereotypes, but I am always listening to what the other person is saying, and I am always thinking about it.
If you wish to argue what I've said here, go ahead, as I would value an outside perspective. On the otherhand, BOLO, if you just want to ignore me, well... good riddance.
|
|
You do realize I was just guessing out of frustration, right?
