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Post by dixiedoll on Mar 27, 2003 22:09:04 GMT -5
::)My old mama always told me that a girl could never get pregnant if she kept her knees together.
Now that may sound simplistic but other than rape--it is up to a woman to see that she doesn't get pregnant and hence/ no need for an abortion.
If our society weren't so permissive we'd have no need for this discussion.
While abortion is now the law of the land, personally my feelings are that it is murder.
I personally know of two grown women who had abortions when they were young and never got over the experience. They carry the burden their whole life.
It ain't easy doing away with your child.
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Post by MO on Mar 28, 2003 3:34:47 GMT -5
dixiedoll- I agree with you. My grandma always said the best birth control pill was to keep an asprin between your knees.
Peanut- Our congress just voted to ban partial birth abortions. That is the procedure where they induce labor and suck the brains out of a viable child on its way out of the birth canal. Our elected congress people had to vote for or against the bill- just yes or no-not maybe so. When questions are on our voter ballots, there is never a "depends on the situation" box. It is just not a very well thought out position to have, on any issue. I'm not sure what you mean by your comment about sodamn insane. I guess I'm missing the reason you believe it relevant.
I think I have more respect for Horrace's position. He seems to believe that abortion should be an option, b/c it is not a human life. That is easier for me to understand then admitting that it's a human life, but supporting the right to snuff it out anyway. You say that the unborn should have human status, but the mother should be free to abort if it was the result of rape. If that became the legal law of the land, "rape" would go up hundreds of thousands percent. What if a raped woman had her child, kept it, and discovered two years later that it brought back painful memories of the rape. Should she be able to kill it then? If you see a big distinction, then you DON'T believe in human status for the unborn.
What makes you think her pain would be increased by having the child rather then killing it. She dosen't have to be the one to raise it. The continued existence of the rapist might cause her more pain then seeing him dead. Should we kill him? What about the man who walks away from his pregnant wife/lover. Carrying that child to term might cause her emotional pain. Aborting the child may ease her short term pain, but so might killing HIM!
Most people have gone through a situation in which someone else's life make there's hard to live. Ask anyone who has ever been through a divorce. A divorced mother can look at her children and see that no good, cheatin', gamblin', drinkin', nasty ol' ex husband, or she can see them for the innocent children that they are. Kaaappeeeshh?
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Post by Peanut on Mar 29, 2003 13:30:58 GMT -5
Mo, your last comment proves exactly what i'm saying! I have no idea how much pain a woman will go through if she keeps a baby of rape or aborts her child - BUT NEITHER DO YOU! So dont speak for all of woman kind, cuz you cant!
I am not saying abortion is okay is this circumstance or worng in that one, i'm saying, that unfortunately you cannot simply VOTE IT OUT. WHY? Because of the numerous situations out there, there is no absolute with abortion (right now your gonna try and pull that "is the unborn human?" line with me, but bare with me). You congress voted out ONE TYPE of abortion, if it was such a "yes" or "no" choice, why not get rid of all abortions in general? Because it is NOT THAT EASY. Another example to show you my point is this, rape is illegal, in every state (or province, depending) why? Because rape is always wrong, this is a simple yes or no vote(no grey area, no "iffy" option, no means no, right?). In abortion is there is always a reason of a woman that HAS to get an abortion - ectopic pregnancy, you said it yourself. THIS OPTION RIGHT HERE DOES NOT MAKE ABORTION AN ABSOLUTE TRUTH!
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Post by MO on Mar 29, 2003 21:44:58 GMT -5
I am not the least bit inconsistent with moral absolutes, but you are. Emergency surgery to remove a tube that will otherwise burst and kill the woman (and the baby) is far from aborting to spare "feelings." Killing in self-defense is consistent with the laws of God, nature and man.
If an un-born child IS human, but the woman's "feelings" should play a role in whether the child lives or dies, why stop at rape victims? Everyone has different emotional reactions and coping skills. One woman who is pregnant as a result of rape may deal with it quite well, while some rich woman accidently pregnant by her husband may have a complete breakdown because she dosen't want to lose her figure or miss any of her golf games. Individual feelings are not fact and they have no place when considering social analysis of right from wrong. They are only for inter-personal relationships! Not moral truth!
If you want to consider feelings, why not let her hunt down and shoot the rapist? Maybe that would cure some of her feelings. Maybe you should consider the feelings of the rapist? Maybe his mother didn't love him and the selfish tax-payers in his city didn't provide enough midnight basketball programs to better channel his aggression? Why should he go to jail if his "feelings" told him it was the right thing to do?
I don't believe someone should get a free pass on rape or homocide, based on feelings.
You have been sucked into the oxygen free vortex of lame brained liberals.
I'm sure many of the Nazi soldiers had strong feelings about why killing jews was justified. After all, it was legal and encouraged!
I will fight to my death bed to simply VOTE IT OUT!
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Post by Peanut on Mar 30, 2003 1:47:35 GMT -5
"Killing in self-defense is consistent with the laws of God, nature and man" - WHAT?! Clear contradiction i can throw at you with the Bible. God killed people that were "wicked"(story of Noah) then says its bad to do what He did (clearly this is not a true story). SO SPARE ME THAT KILLING IN SELF DEFENSE IS NATURAL.
"One woman who is pregnant as a result of rape may deal with it quite well" - ARE YOU *censored*ING INSANE?! Show me ONE woman that was able to take rape "well" and add to that the torture of caring her rapist's child. I challenge you with this! I'm guessing you have never been raped, otherwise YOU would never say crap like that. WHAT ARE YOU, 12?!?! Holding on to perfect faith beliefs. Or are you high? FD would be BACKING ME UP here, that's how bad your arguement has gotten! Comparing raging hormones of the "rich and stuck up" to the trauma anyone could face due to rape is like comparing a paper cut to a train wreck.
"Individual feelings are not fact and they have no place when considering social analysis of right from wrong." - Tell this to Rev. Martin Luther King Jr's Wife, PLEASE! You have now officially become an airhead!
"If you want to consider feelings, why not let her hunt down and shoot the rapist? Maybe that would cure some of her feelings. Maybe you should consider the feelings of the rapist? Maybe his mother didn't love him and the selfish tax-payers in his city didn't provide enough midnight basketball programs to better channel his aggression? Why should he go to jail if his "feelings" told him it was the right thing to do?"
I am NOT saying feelings are the sole and only reason why people should do things or be allowed to do things, BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT RAPE HERE, YOU GO.DDAMN PSYCHO!!!! Who gives a crap why a rapist rapes, this will help no one, and as far as i'm concerned, once a rapist rapes someone, they have lost many, maybe all of their rights. But you cant simply ignore what they've done, and tell a woman (or man) to "BUCK UP".
If you fight to your death to "VOTE IT OUT" you will be sending many women and babies to their graves - you are a hypocrite.
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Post by MO on Mar 30, 2003 12:54:21 GMT -5
WOW LOL! Maybe you should ask one of the nice ladies in white for an increase in your meds. You need to stop chewing through the straps!
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Post by Peanut on Mar 30, 2003 16:42:21 GMT -5
WOW!! Notice how you have nothing important to say or refute, well hell, you NEVER do. So shut your trap unless you have a point to make, i'm starting to think you're a 15 year old, cuz there is no way a grown woman would say or think like you do, unless their part of a cult. CHEERS!
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Post by MO on Mar 31, 2003 1:23:52 GMT -5
Peanut- Your post is a typical left-wing dogmatic diatribe, full of emotional foot-stomping and personal attack. There is nothing of substance or reasoned thought to refute. It's not a rant, it's a temper tantrum. You even finish off with a vain attempt to silence me!
You have really proved your superior level of maturity, emotional stability, and reasoning skills! While you cannot force me to "shut my trap" on this board, you do prove the futility of responding to your posts.
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Post by Peanut1 on Apr 1, 2003 13:37:19 GMT -5
Cant log in for some reason....
But i would rather be a left wing (you make it sound like a bad thing, when i consider my self more centre) and have an emotional repsonse towards some whose been raped then a right winger.
Rather be human then a conservative.
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Post by clegal on Apr 4, 2003 23:03:08 GMT -5
I have two friends that were raped and ended up pregnant as a result. They both carried the pregnancy to term. One adopted the baby out, the other is raising her child. It's not the babies fault that it's there - why punish the unborn for something it had nothing to do with? It's murder no matter which way you slice it.
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Post by MO on Apr 5, 2003 5:26:49 GMT -5
clegal- Thank you for your reasoned response.
My commitment to the un-born should not be seen as a lack of concern for victims of rape. And you, apparently see the distinction.
Welcome to the board! I hope you post again!
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Post by Peanut on Apr 5, 2003 12:15:21 GMT -5
Clegal - believe it or not, i do agree with you, it is murder no matter which way you slice it. However i am not without a sense of compassion for the victims. Those women you know are QUEENS among women for that they've done. But i do have a question for the one that is raising her child, does she at all see the rapist in her child? This is strictly a question of curiousity.
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Post by middleoftheroad on Apr 11, 2003 11:05:16 GMT -5
First of all, I would like to say that I agree with many of your points. As a woman, I cannot make the argument for abortion. I believe any woman could not, honestly say, that abortion is okay. For me, it is a moral decision...what my conscience tells me. I believe there are no cir*censored*stances under which I would have one.
However, I do believe there are cir*censored*stances for other women that may put them in a tough situation, with a dramatic decision. In the case of rape or imminent death (to the mother, if she goes through with birth,) how can a society make that decision? Should a woman have to go through with a pregnancy if her life is at stake? Should a woman have to give birth to a child that was a result of rape? What if that pregnancy resulting from rape interfered with her life, employment, her existing family?
I would really like to hear some opinions relating to how we should deal with these issues. Do we legislate only for these...I know that the true numbers of these instances are small...but how do we differentiate between those really raped and those lying to qualify for an abortion.
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Post by JesterCerberus on Jun 18, 2003 16:40:58 GMT -5
"What's all this crap about a woman's so called "right" to choose?
Where do they get off with this?
Where in the constitution does it say "A woman shall have the right to a clean, safe abortion.""
(Sorry I don't know how to quote the cool way but these are the first posts words verbatim)
Well you won't find anything about a women's right to abortion in the constitution that's right. You know why, because the first draft of the constitution that our Fore Father's tan with was extremely racist and sexist. "All men are created equal" and by men they meant white men. Blacks were still being enslaved and women, well they couldn't vote and were viewed as first their father's and then their husbands' property. Not only were they not allowed to the right of abortion but they weren't allowed to decide whether or not they wanted children at all. They weren’t allowed to decide anything really, and most of them died in child birth, after many unsuccessful attempts. I'm not sure about abortion though, I think it is a very serious decision that should not be taken lightly. At the same time as a man I don't know if that decision is mine. So I guess when it comes down to it I'm pro choice because I don't feel like I have the right to decide. That doesn't mean I go marching in parades, and doesn't mean I condemn pro lifers, I just don't think I have the right to decide. Anyway your constitution argument is completely wrong so I wanted to just point that out.
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Post by Sandy Price on Jun 30, 2003 7:20:43 GMT -5
The problem can be easily solved. If you believe that abortion is murder then don't have one. If you believe that a fetus is something living off the host (woman's body) and you have no Christian problems with it then the Supreme Court has said it is legal.
We we live by our own individual decisions? Must we have the government issue another prohibition?
Can we not think for ourselves?
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