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Post by bannerman on Jul 3, 2003 23:16:23 GMT -5
The problem can be easily solved. If you believe that abortion is murder then don't have one. If you believe that a fetus is something living off the host (woman's body) and you have no Christian problems with it then the Supreme Court has said it is legal. We we live by our own individual decisions? Must we have the government issue another prohibition? Can we not think for ourselves? Government al over the World have all manner of laws forbing Murder and Myhem Abortion--------- is BOTH Whats your REAL BEEF? is this another one of your research gigs? Planning on copying these posts and trying to get em published are ya  Newsmax sandy,... you pathetic MAGGOT |
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Post by Remedios on Jul 10, 2003 11:11:05 GMT -5
Since the founding of this country, Americans have fought to prevent excessive intrusion of the state into individual matters of conscience. This is a fundamental element of democracy and, in particular, of our country and Constitution. Fundamental, because reasonable people may differ as to what is wrong or right and often have different ideas about what issues have moral significance. Where there is consensus, such as that killing one another is something we should punish in the pursuit of order and security, the law is and always has been there, unquestioned. With other issues there is little or no consensus, or the consensus changes with time, and with regard to such issues, an individual should be left to decide for himself what he will or will not do. If you read and believe in the Bible, it's likely you'll think abortion is horrible. Same goes for a non-religious, pro-life feminist who thinks that childbearing and birth are a natural, and therefore positive, part of a woman's existence. On the other hand, for many atheists there is absolutely nothing wrong with terminating a pregnancy (killing a fetus) . I don't think (and neither does the Supreme Court, mind you) that any of these beliefs is more valid than any other, and furthermore, that any one of them should be given precedence in the law. It comes down to freedom of religion, simply stated as, "where individual consciences may differ, no ONE of them should rule."
In Roe v. Wade and Casey v. Planned Parenthood, the Supreme Court set out and reaffirmed a law (albeit in a tortured fashion in the former) that allowed each of the above individuals the freedom to follow their own conscience when it comes to whether or not to have an abortion.
All that said, I don't know why YOU think abortion is wrong (it'd be interesting to know so that I could argue as answer rather then in a vacuum) but here's what I think about abortion:
Your post annoyed me because I don't think of abortion in moral terms, and the crux of your error is to believe that everyone does/should. Abortion is neither "right" nor "wrong" in my mind. To think otherwise would be to believe that there is either some positive good in killing unborn children, or a demonstrable evil, neither of which is my belief. I am pro-CHOICE (not pro-abortion, as you pro-lifers like to imply) because I don't see anything PARTICULARLY wrong with terminating a pregnancy if the mother wants to (for whatever reason), and because I see a great evil in forcing a woman who does not want to be pregnant (for any reason) to carry a child to term. If not for the Supreme Court, people like you could decide for others what is ultimately a religious and moral issue-and therefore private, not public- issue. No thank you. That would be akin to me being able to step in and tell you that if your wife is raped, she has to have an abortion. Or for that matter, that you are not allowed to believe in creationism because I think it's dumb. Wouldn't want that, would ya?
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Post by garrett7855 on Jul 10, 2003 12:36:01 GMT -5
:oOH MY GAWD  How in the world did I miss this entire string? Well, I'm here now, so here I go again. Of course a woman has a right to choose! Every woman has the right to choose to keep her knees firmly together. Oh, sorry, wrong answer! Don't throw the rape argument at me--I've already raised one kid who was the result of a rape, and she's just fine, thankyou very much. And she's given me three beautiful grandchildren so far. A child produced as a result of a rape is no less a child. Don't ever even dare to visit the sins of the father on the child. I do have feelings for a woman who has been through it-I was married to one. Yes, it is a traumatic thing. It's just awful and I doubt any woman can just 'get over it'. Abortion isn't going to make her feel better-it just adds more trauma on top of the existing trauma, and you get to add extra guilt into the equation to make it more fun! Oh, joy! Life begins at conception. Period. If anything is done to terminate a pregnancy thruogh any interference with the pregancy, then a homicide has been committed. The only exception would be when the pregnancy would absolutely, positively, with no room for discussion cause the death of one or both the mother and the child. And there are times when I wonder if the mother shouldn't be the one sacrificed to the knife. Let's not let the men off scott free here either! You guys who don't know how to keep it in your pants are just as bad as the gals who open up for you! If you don't WANT the pregnancy, don't CAUSE the pregnacy! It's just that simple. Period. |
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Post by remedios on Jul 11, 2003 23:11:10 GMT -5
Of course a woman has a right to choose! Every woman has the right to choose to keep her knees firmly together.The issue we're talking about is whether or not a woman has a right to choose to terminate a pregnancy, not whether she has a right to choose to get pregnant. Your comment above misses the point, although I suspect you already knew that.  Don't throw the rape argument at me--I've already raised one kid who was the result of a rape, and she's just fine, thankyou very much. And she's given me three beautiful grandchildren so far.It's nice that you've found such happiness and I'm sure your step-daughter is happy your wife didn't abort her. If your wife is magnanimous enough to lend her uterus to the life that any rapist chooses to plant there, more power to her. I, on the other hand, have absolutely no interest in such magnaminity. I'd have prevented the little sucker's existence within 24 hours. And if you think I'd have a problem looking your step-daughter in the eye and saying so, please, introduce us. A child produced as a result of a rape is no less a child. Uh-huh. And a pregnancy that results from a rape is no less an unwanted pregnancy, at least in cases other than such mindnumbingly selfless women as your wife. Don't ever even dare to visit the sins of the father on the child. I do have feelings for a woman who has been through it-I was married to one. Yes, it is a traumatic thing. It's just awful and I doubt any woman can just 'get over it'. Abortion isn't going to make her feel better-it just adds more trauma on top of the existing trauma, and you get to add extra guilt into the equation to make it more fun! Oh, joy!Go visit I'mnotsorry.net. On it you will find countless stories of women who've had abortions who feel anything but guilty. Women who feel guilty after having an abortion shouldn't have had one in the first place. Life begins at conception. Period. If anything is done to terminate a pregnancy thruogh any interference with the pregancy, then a homicide has been committed. So if I kill a pregnant cow for a hamburger, I've committed murder? I don't think so. Most would agree because they do not value that life (either that of the cow or it's fetus). Similarly, I do not value the life of an unborn child in the first 2 trimesters of pregnancy over the peace of mind of the woman. The only exception would be when the pregnancy would absolutely, positively, with no room for discussion cause the death of one or both the mother and the child. And there are times when I wonder if the mother shouldn't be the one sacrificed to the knife. Interesting. Here you go against the single credible foundation on which pro-LIFERS have to stand: that all life should be valued. If you can engage in comparing the value of one sort of life over the other, why can't pro-choicers? It is clear that you do not know of what you speak. What a waste of everyone's time! 
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Post by quinwound on Sept 3, 2003 12:23:55 GMT -5
I with that guy/gal.
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Post by Diamondback on Sept 3, 2003 14:17:38 GMT -5
Before running your ******* mouths about people who choose abortion. Lets see all of you right to lifers step up to the plate and adopt the unwanted kids already in this world. You never think about anything but your opinion. While I'm at it there are some very good reasons for abortion. Such as Incestual rape, Rape, to save thew mothers life, etc. So when you say there is no reason for abortion blow it out your ear.
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Post by quinwound on Sept 4, 2003 14:22:22 GMT -5
My plan is to a adopt a teenager, and after the teen is off and on there own have a kid of my own.
So quick to speak. What a shame.
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Post by MO on Sept 4, 2003 14:40:27 GMT -5
I know many pro life families who have adopted children. You act as if only they have earned the right to speak out against abortion. I am against the slaughter of the elderly but I have no intention of opening a nursing home.
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Post by AgentOrange on Sept 6, 2003 17:10:49 GMT -5
ABORTION is good.....it has always been good. Now it's even better because they can use the fetal tissue for Stem Cell Research which may cure the living. To hell with fetal tissue.
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Post by quinwound on Sept 8, 2003 18:39:59 GMT -5
ABORTION is good.....it has always been good. Now it's even better because they can use the fetal tissue for Stem Cell Research which may cure the living. To hell with fetal tissue. I would not go as far as to say that, Birth control should have been used. But we still should have it. |
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Post by Favre on Sept 8, 2003 23:01:27 GMT -5
ABORTION is good.....it has always been good. Now it's even better because they can use the fetal tissue for Stem Cell Research which may cure the living. To hell with fetal tissue. I'm pretty sure your mommy wants you to go to bed now. Hopefully when you grow up, you will grow a brain. |
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Post by quinwound on Oct 27, 2003 16:58:06 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure your mommy wants you to go to bed now. Hopefully when you grow up, you will grow a brain. And thats what I call a personal attack. If you don't agree, don't start personal attacks. Explain your point of view. Start a civil debate |
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Post by MO on Oct 27, 2003 18:46:27 GMT -5
Sometimes stating the obvious is something that I can't call a personal attack. Good advice, quinwound. Follow it. |
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Post by guestvito on Nov 13, 2003 17:26:42 GMT -5
What is the Biblical basis for believing that life begins at conception?
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Post by MO on Nov 13, 2003 21:03:50 GMT -5
Jeremiah 1
5"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you;
Before you were born I sanctified you;
I ordained you a prophet to the nations."
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Newsmax sandy,... you pathetic MAGGOT
