Post by Nathan on Mar 22, 2004 20:27:02 GMT -5
Hi again. You remember me, right? from that long entitlement rant in the National debt post? i'm the friendly liberal!
Anyway, I have come again, to talk to you, this time about the great mistake conservatives are making in Iraq.
umm... where should i start?
First off... Saddam was "bad" is not an argument. You need only to look at half the governments in Africa to find worse leaders than saddam. ( "When the army attacks a police station, you know your living in Africa" ) None of these leaders have much to do with the U.S.
so, here comes the doozy, was saddam a threat to us. By us i mean U.S. ( catchy eh? )
And, more importantly, was he enough of a threat to justify the dire consequences of starting a war in Iraq?
Lets look at the middle east for a few paragraphs:
They do not like the U.S. very much. this seems clear.
It all started back with the british in the 1920s... i can't remember the whole story.... lets just skip to iraq intervention #1 .
We didn't like the Iranians. The Iraqis didn't like the Iranians. The iraqis are our friends? must be!
So, we armed the iraqis with modern weapons, including biological weapons, and they waged war with the Iranians.
Afterwords, Saddam got in a little doozy.... he did too much heroine as the rumors say, and invaded kuwait, with his modern, U.S. weapons.
Well, we kicked his ass, but thats not the point.
Oh, and remember the big bad soviet union? they wanted to expand to afghanistan.
So, the U.S. decided that communists were bad, and Islamic Fundamentalists? well at least their religous. We decided to arm the Mujahadeen ( sp? ) in afghanistan to fight the russians.
These, U.S. armed, U.S. trained fanatics then created one hell of a country which we ended up smashing too, in afghanistan.
And in all of these conflicts... and others which i have neither the time nor the memory to reveval the details of, the U.S. F***ed up. and Middle Eastern Lives payed for it.
This is why the middle east is a little bit ansy about us going on another idealistic crusade in THEIR territory.
Lets face it, even the rational arabs are turning against us.
And then we have Osama bin ladin. His job is to FEED off all of this hatred of the U.S. and create something to wreak havok, IN THE U.S.
So... now you have Saddam's Iraq, one of the most secular countries in the middle east, which Osama hates because it isn't islamic enough, and the U.S. wants to invade.
Congradulation Osama! you've got a new crusade to lure every naive 18 year old male from saudia arabia to pakistan to join your crusade against the invading american infidels! Don't like the U.S ? Join Allah to fight against it!
Donald rumsfield says that he worries that terrorists are being created faster than they are being killed. Hmm... I wonder why?
And anyway... back to Iraq.
just a note about making a democracy:
You can't just Waltz into the country, Smash the government, then expect a new, free, stable, democratic, pro-american government to just pop up overnight. It doesn't work like that.
Democracy took CENTURIES to evolve. Iraqi society is divided and uneducated in the governmental principles needed to sustain a stable democracy.
I'll tell you a little secret, here's what going to happen:
To start the problem, about 60% of the population is Shiite.
Since its rushed, there won't be enough time to work out constitutional protections for the minority sunnis... and considering all the sunni leaders were bathists, who now have no part in making the constitution, the sunnis are going to have a problem when it comes to helping in the government.
First off, the Shiites are likely to vote with the Shiites. and since there are 60% of them, they will own everything.
The sunnis aren't going to enjoy this very much, so they are going to revolt. Considering that iraq is conveniently divided into regions, it will be a long and bloody civil war.
And considering that the majority of middle easterners are sunni, outside of iraq, it will be seen as the U.S. crusading for the Infidel Shiites to topple the middle east! Kindof like israel eh? except shiite instead of jewish.
( am i spelling shiite right? i hope i am )
Call me a pessimist? You're the conservative one.
Anyway, was iraq really THAT much of a threat? well, where are the weapons of mass destruction? Are they in syria or did they never exist?
i think i've written enough.
Anyway, I have come again, to talk to you, this time about the great mistake conservatives are making in Iraq.
umm... where should i start?
First off... Saddam was "bad" is not an argument. You need only to look at half the governments in Africa to find worse leaders than saddam. ( "When the army attacks a police station, you know your living in Africa" ) None of these leaders have much to do with the U.S.
so, here comes the doozy, was saddam a threat to us. By us i mean U.S. ( catchy eh? )
And, more importantly, was he enough of a threat to justify the dire consequences of starting a war in Iraq?
Lets look at the middle east for a few paragraphs:
They do not like the U.S. very much. this seems clear.
It all started back with the british in the 1920s... i can't remember the whole story.... lets just skip to iraq intervention #1 .
We didn't like the Iranians. The Iraqis didn't like the Iranians. The iraqis are our friends? must be!
So, we armed the iraqis with modern weapons, including biological weapons, and they waged war with the Iranians.
Afterwords, Saddam got in a little doozy.... he did too much heroine as the rumors say, and invaded kuwait, with his modern, U.S. weapons.
Well, we kicked his ass, but thats not the point.
Oh, and remember the big bad soviet union? they wanted to expand to afghanistan.
So, the U.S. decided that communists were bad, and Islamic Fundamentalists? well at least their religous. We decided to arm the Mujahadeen ( sp? ) in afghanistan to fight the russians.
These, U.S. armed, U.S. trained fanatics then created one hell of a country which we ended up smashing too, in afghanistan.
And in all of these conflicts... and others which i have neither the time nor the memory to reveval the details of, the U.S. F***ed up. and Middle Eastern Lives payed for it.
This is why the middle east is a little bit ansy about us going on another idealistic crusade in THEIR territory.
Lets face it, even the rational arabs are turning against us.
And then we have Osama bin ladin. His job is to FEED off all of this hatred of the U.S. and create something to wreak havok, IN THE U.S.
So... now you have Saddam's Iraq, one of the most secular countries in the middle east, which Osama hates because it isn't islamic enough, and the U.S. wants to invade.
Congradulation Osama! you've got a new crusade to lure every naive 18 year old male from saudia arabia to pakistan to join your crusade against the invading american infidels! Don't like the U.S ? Join Allah to fight against it!
Donald rumsfield says that he worries that terrorists are being created faster than they are being killed. Hmm... I wonder why?
And anyway... back to Iraq.
just a note about making a democracy:
You can't just Waltz into the country, Smash the government, then expect a new, free, stable, democratic, pro-american government to just pop up overnight. It doesn't work like that.
Democracy took CENTURIES to evolve. Iraqi society is divided and uneducated in the governmental principles needed to sustain a stable democracy.
I'll tell you a little secret, here's what going to happen:
To start the problem, about 60% of the population is Shiite.
Since its rushed, there won't be enough time to work out constitutional protections for the minority sunnis... and considering all the sunni leaders were bathists, who now have no part in making the constitution, the sunnis are going to have a problem when it comes to helping in the government.
First off, the Shiites are likely to vote with the Shiites. and since there are 60% of them, they will own everything.
The sunnis aren't going to enjoy this very much, so they are going to revolt. Considering that iraq is conveniently divided into regions, it will be a long and bloody civil war.
And considering that the majority of middle easterners are sunni, outside of iraq, it will be seen as the U.S. crusading for the Infidel Shiites to topple the middle east! Kindof like israel eh? except shiite instead of jewish.
( am i spelling shiite right? i hope i am )
Call me a pessimist? You're the conservative one.
Anyway, was iraq really THAT much of a threat? well, where are the weapons of mass destruction? Are they in syria or did they never exist?
i think i've written enough.
