Abortion

[midcan5]

Those are your interpretations of the bible. Many others would read it differently and there is no abortion in the bible.

So all it is is self control and we should all have that, right? Suppose one night we let our guard down - just once? It always amazes me that it is males who are so opposed to abortion - an experience they can never have. How easy it to preach to others, how hard to be without any wrongs - sins you call it. Let me ask you, given the weakness of man can we instead offer birth control so we have no abortions? Can we fund contracptives for youth? For those who lack that self control you know, could be the good thing.

www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5212a1.htm

[MO]

There were abortion potions in Biblical times, but most often newborns who were not wanted were just left to the elements. It wasn't until the spread of Christianity that the value of life became a part of human values. You still see very little of that in some cultures.

The feminist movement has been castrating men and telling them what they shouldn't and should have an opinion about for so long that at this point, there are more pro-choice men than women in many demographics. And why wouldn't there be? They get to use women for sex and prostitute them to the male dominated abortion industry. They get to dodge the consequences of their actions, too, and as you correctly pointed out, they don't ever have to be the ones to put their feet in the stirrups.

[groucho]

midcan5 said:

Those are your interpretations of the bible. Many others would read it differently and there is no abortion in the bible.

So all it is is self control and we should all have that, right? Suppose one night we let our guard down - just once? It always amazes me that it is males who are so opposed to abortion - an experience they can never have. How easy it to preach to others, how hard to be without any wrongs - sins you call it. Let me ask you, given the weakness of man can we instead offer birth control so we have no abortions? Can we fund contracptives for youth? For those who lack that self control you know, could be the good thing.

www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5212a1.htm

Yeah, sure - always with the man-bashing!
Kinda hard to get preggers WITHOUT male involvement, isn't it?

Men don't have the chance to bond with their offspring the way women do - we don't carry them until birth, and we sure as hell don't suckle them AFTER birth, so is it any wonder why a male might take umbrage when abortion is classified SOLELY as a "woman's right," even though the need for that "right" wouldn't exist without male involvement?

Do a little research - fully 85% of ALL abortions are performed as a means of birth control (the other 15% are "the allowable 3" - rape, incest, or to save the life of the mother, according to the CDC)!!!! Self control starts BEFORE the condition exists - not after!!! Why is is so difficult to grasp the simple fact that SEX is the leading cause of pregnancy??

How many people would be willing to go out and have say, their index finger chopped off? It's just a lump of tissue, after all. Would it be missed? Be painful? Cause problems after it's gone? Isn't it our right to do what we will with our own bodies? Where's the Roe-v-Wade equivalent for smokers? Drinkers? McDonald's patrons?

We've already seen the liberal approach - Joycelyn Elders' plan to make condom education mandatory for pre-schoolers!!!
If you're comfortable with the idea of 25-year-old grandmothers in future society, more power to ya......

[MO]

Groucho! Midcan was telling you that you don't have a right to have an opinion on the topic if you're pro life and happen to be a man. Never mind that it's mans' children they are aborting and half of them are males.

Do a little research - fully 85% of ALL abortions are performed as a means of birth control (the other 15% are "the allowable 3" - rape, incest, or to save the life of the mother, according to the CDC)!

I think that is waaay off. It's more like 1-2 %.

[ASadAmerican]

midcan5 said:

Those are your interpretations of the bible. Many others would read it differently and there is no abortion in the bible.

So all it is is self control and we should all have that, right? Suppose one night we let our guard down - just once? It always amazes me that it is males who are so opposed to abortion - an experience they can never have. How easy it to preach to others, how hard to be without any wrongs - sins you call it. Let me ask you, given the weakness of man can we instead offer birth control so we have no abortions? Can we fund contracptives for youth? For those who lack that self control you know, could be the good thing.
www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5212a1.htm

Yep pretty much self control is the key simply put. I like to think I have self control, never had a DWI, ie I never drank and got pulled over, or ran into the dreaded road check.
Never got a seatbelt tix, why cause I always clicked it or I knew I'd get a tickdet, lol Yes sadly thats all it takes, a small amount of self control.

I guess it all starts at home, we have a lack of responsibility now in America, it's always someones fault other than our own, no parents in the home, sure there are physically grown adults walking around, but no parents to be seen. Case in point last night I was listening to the radio in the bathroom there was some head shrinker show on , dont remember the name, she had a "little girl" call in saying she had a problem w her 4yo. The child did not want to do his business #2 on the toilet he would go to her and DEMAND a pamper. OMFG, come on now. The doc was quite taken aback by this scenario, rightfully so this fall he will be starting kindergarten and imagine the shit (excuse da pun) he will be getting from the romper room set when they spot a pamper. And to top it all off she blamed the daycare he is going to for not helping him w this problem, hell she sounded like a 4yo herself. Kids having kids. My mom would have made me go get her a switch to beat my own ass with had I demanded ANYTHING, let alone not... well you get my point I hope.

There is a definite moral decline in today and it is only getting worse. ah yes suppose we,I let our guard down one night and have 1 too many and forget we are wasted, and on top of that indiscretion forget to buckle our seat belt and low and behold on the horizon ahead of us or behind in the rear view blue lights and an alcosensor attached to a highway patrolman. Do you think he is going to care if you let your guard down "just this one time" NO.
Joo is going to jail.

Males being the strongest ones opposed to abortion I feel sure there are just as many women with strong views to murder, just like some of the fellas are. Yes contrceptives are a viable option. Although the church is wholly against it, I would rather stand in judgement by my creator for that than murder, would'nt you? We don't need to fund abortion for youth. The government has no buisness rasing my children or yours, or anyone elses for that matter. They have quite enough on their plate. As for the self control it begins when you are 4 yo, and in the real world before and you demand a pamper from your mother. How many demands did you make of your parents? I had 1 parent my mom raised 2 sons by herself she took no shit from either one of us, she treated us like children with adult responsibilites that may sound odd but we could play and have fun, but we knew work needed to be done and if it was not done there would be consequences and repercussions. there is too little of the latter in today.
I recently went to my sons school. It was a circus the only thing missing were 3 rings and some lions, cause there were damn sure alot of clowns running around, and these are going to be the kids who will make the abortion statistics you made available coninue to thrive. The most disturbing thin in that was the # of <15 - 19 yo having abortions. No on band-aid is going to fix it we are going to have to start putting some bite behind our bark dealing w our kids, worked for the majority of us did it not?


Mo I appreciate the tip you gave and I found this:

What herbs did women use for contraception? Egyptians used acacia gum (which contains compounds still used in spermicidal jellies) The Libyans made a drink from silphium, a giant fennel. The related asafoetida and opoponax were also used, though less effective. So were myrrh, date palm, and pomegrante.Some penitentials mention potentially fatal mixtures using such herbs as belladonna and honeysuckle.Northern sources refer to women using vaginal suppositories with cedar oil, or cabbage leaves, or fresh mandrake and other leaves. More recent German folk contraceptives include teas of marjoram, thyme, parsley and lavender (which also abort), the root of worm fern, and brake, known as “prostitute root.”<br>
Wow...................

Still no justification from all the pro choicers on the sea turtle delimna......................



Fire Away




PS I just found this it too speaks for itself in a sad kinda way

www.dogcondoms.com/

no i did not go looking for this I found it on a time wasting website.............soooo sad where we are today.

[midcan5]

"Groucho! Midcan was telling you that you don't have a right to have an opinion on the topic if you're pro life and happen to be a man. Never mind that it's mans' children they are aborting and half of them are males."

You have a right to any opinion you like, you have no right to impose that opinion on others. This is still in spite of the wacky religious right a free and intelligent country. Let's hope it remains that way. We fought the Taliban in Afghanistan don't want them here in Christian clothing.

Sad, While I am not a fan of abortion your sea turtle analogy is a little misguided, we are not an endangered species just the opposite in several countries. Notice how cheap their labor is. But why not education on preventative measures on sex. We raised two boys and I come from 14 and there are all types of approaches to birth control, one sister in law gave condoms and birth control pills when they reached that age. She gave no instructions but she clearly made a statement. Sorry, you live in an unreal moral universe of unacceptance of the real. If you have a few children you will learn or you will be bitter forever.

PS the flags are annoying, I am American too and buy American - actions speak louder than icons. Show is cheap.

[MO]

True that no one has a right to impose their religious beliefs on anyone, but we also live in a society where no one can interfere with another person's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Claiming that the mother's rights of temporary inconvenience to the baby that she created are greater than the child's right to life is akin to stating that if some fat chick won't get out of your way in the parking lot, you should just mow her down.

I don't think any individuals human rights are dependent on how many people are in the world. To equate the individual human value to the (false) notion of population problems verses turtle population is good evidence of the moral decline already mentioned by the previous poster.

Bitter? I'm a conservative and I let all my kids live!

Since you don't know of anyone's shopping habits, it would be a good idea for you to not use that excuse to instruct people not to use emoticons. If you're offended by an image of our flag, go elsewhere.

[ASadAmerican]

midcan5 said:

"Groucho! Midcan was telling you that you don't have a right to have an opinion on the topic if you're pro life and happen to be a man. Never mind that it's mans' children they are aborting and half of them are males."

You have a right to any opinion you like, you have no right to impose that opinion on others. This is still in spite of the wacky religious right a free and intelligent country. Let's hope it remains that way. We fought the Taliban in Afghanistan don't want them here in Christian clothing.

Sad, While I am not a fan of abortion your sea turtle analogy is a little misguided, we are not an endangered species just the opposite in several countries. Notice how cheap their labor is. But why not education on preventative measures on sex. We raised two boys and I come from 14 and there are all types of approaches to birth control, one sister in law gave condoms and birth control pills when they reached that age. She gave no instructions but she clearly made a statement. Sorry, you live in an unreal moral universe of unacceptance of the real. If you have a few children you will learn or you will be bitter forever.

PS the flags are annoying, I am American too and buy American - actions speak louder than icons. Show is cheap.

How is it sad we have the power to presuppose that that turtle egg will in fact become a turtle. Why not a human??
Because we have rights?? Endangered or not eliminate that from the thought process. If you harm that egg in any way you will be found guilty of a crime, juxtapose both scenarios and tell me why one is a crime and the other is not? It is far from misguided, it is in fact a reality, the reality that we as a people work so hard to protect a species of lesser reptiles and wantonly murder the innocent. Simply to satisy our own selfish wants and desires. Wants and desires that brought us to the abortion clinic in the first place. It is going to have to start at home, being parents.
I am out of work now for 1week and counting because I was being a parent to my children. He went to a baseball clinic and was showing me some of the drills he had learned and I stupidly tried to freecatch a ball he threw w my right hand and broke it tearing a nail off in the process. as I am a Chef it is quite difficult to sautee etc w a broken thumb. So yes I am a parent and I know that my kids won't smoke dope or cigs, or drink. I'm involved with them I love them and I know in my heart they are and will continue to be great kids. I hope that if they do have sex they won't ask me for contraceptives that they will have enough RESPONSIBILITY to do that on their own. I don't live in an unreal moral universe, I live in the universe I was taught existed, the real one where careless acts perpetrated by even more careless people dominate. I live in the world where murder and suicide rule because there is no longer the family unit where kids can have someone to talk to, an adult to set an example. Ive seen kids murder each other, commit suicide, take drugs(steal from their parents to do so) one even went so far as to hold a gun to his fathers head for money for drugs, so please dont think I do not know what the real world is. I spent 4 yrs in the finest Navy in the world and another 4being a police officer, so I know first hand of what I speak. means somthing to me I'm proud to admit that when I hear the National Anthem I still get chills and tear up a bit because I am proud to be an . The part that makes me sad is how I worked so hard for the very freedom people cloak themselves in to do the horrible despicable things they would do to their own offspring, because it wasnt convinient for them to do so. To duck and shirk responsibility for their actions, to blame someone else.

No my friend there is no show here, this is the real deal.
I'm not going to read a few lines you scripted and automatically assume somthing about you. I don't know you. I'm terribly sorry our symbol of freedom annoys you,
as I stated before I'm pretty damned proud of it.
Explain the comment you made "wacky religious right" I don't grasp what you are saying.

As to your suggestion of education, hey "knowledge is power" I totally agree with you.

Please excuse any punctuation,misspellings, or grammatical errors, broken thumb and pain medication have me at 80%



Fire away!!!!!!!

[midcan5]

Mo, So then let's do everything we can to support education and prevention. But I think the wacky right does not want to do that.

Sad, I use wacky for the extremists right wingers who wish to impose their worldview on the rest of us. Regardless of religious affiliation extremists are dangerous. Also I use it on purpose as a counter to the name calling of the right on liberals or democrats. Not nice, but the right has downplayed or criticized the progress this country made under liberal ideas and they have done so for many years. The flag is annoying as all symbolism can be if overdone but sounds like you have seen the real world. Wave away.

[ASadAmerican]

Mid you seem like a nice individual, and I appreciate being able to discuss things ie differing points of view without getting a tude and being ridiculous. I'll respond more manana
I'm going to spend some time with the kids.

[groucho]

MO said:

Groucho! Midcan was telling you that you don't have a right to have an opinion on the topic if you're pro life and happen to be a man. Never mind that it's mans' children they are aborting and half of them are males.


I think that is waaay off. It's more like 1-2 %.

Hee, hee, hee!!

Yeah, I lowballed the figure, mainly because every source I sought out for statistics (totalling 6 in number) had a different figure!!! Call mine a "conservative average," if you will. ;D

All joking and "attitude" aside, it's still a very sobering and disturbing fact that the majority of all abortions are done as a method of birth control, and as far as "state" protection of this dubious "right" goes, it's a wonder our population is experiencing any growth at all; and I won't even comment about the fact that being outside the womb offers no protection either, as the late Terri Schiavo's case has proven..........

Where's Christopher Walken's "more COWBELL!" when we need it?

[MO]

Midcan, don't preach to me about education and prevention. You don't know what I do.

Your post reads like you're banging on the keys in rage.

You also sound like an extremist trying to impose your world view by getting so hostile, using the "whacky right" rhetoric and making such an accusation on a conservative board. That's just rude. I might make generalizations about liberals here, but I wouldn't do it at DU, nor would they allow it. So much for liberal "tolerance." Liberal tolerance means, "I'll be tolerant as long as you agree with me."

[jimmywhofan]

Abortion is wrong plain and simple and American gov't should in no way allow it. I really do not understand what all the argument is about. The government is there to promote the good and keep evil at bay, and abortion is murder and thus evil.

[MO]

True dat! Welcome to the board.