|
|
Post by TNRighty on Jul 11, 2005 16:21:48 GMT -5
A portrait of the Virgin Mary plastered with cutouts of vaginas.
A portrait of the Virgin Mary with human feces smeared all over it.
A Jesus doll submerged in a jar of Urine.
What does all this garbage have in common? We were told by liberals that it was "art" and that those who made it were only practicing free speech.
I'm only guessing that they wouldn't feel the same if I burned a Koran and strapped firecrackers to an Allah doll at a local art show.
Fast forward...We get FALSE news of U.S. servicemen at Gitmo mishandling the Koran, and the same liberals who protect the above examples of "art" are the first ones to voice their outrage and call for Gitmo to be closed on the grounds that our soldiers abused the Koran.
Just another example of liberals being liberals.
|
|
|
|
Post by midcan5 on Jul 12, 2005 7:18:14 GMT -5
TNR, you are missing many subtle points here and while I recognize subtlety is not a conservative trait we still need to be clear. Do I know that the artist is a liberal? How would I know this? Is self expression only part of liberals. You see you start with preconceived notions and arrive at a conclusion that may not follow. Then you judge the art based on what? Your extensive knowledge of art? Suppose for a moment I grow up in a household in which religious symbols are more important than all other things and I recognize them later as only symbols and only meaningful within a certain context. Then as an artist I juxtapose humanity and symbol: sh_t and picture. Do I personally find this artistic? No. But that does not allow me to change the context so I can label others as finding it artistic and jumping to conclusions. I find it to be crap but that is just me.
But then you move to another area unconnected to artistic expression and having more to do with respect or reverence. Would I find burning any religious book or symbol as a act of disrespect a crime? I may if it were someone's property but the act in itself is again only an person's self expression. Some people express themselves in weird ways, is it up to me to chastise them? If they are friends or family I may but in the public realm I can ignore them. The marketplace of ideas should work here - you are usually such a fan of this market?
And then we move to another area even more complicated. The context of prisoner of war has another set of rules and respect. Unless I need to coerce some critical information and the stick is the only way that works I try to abide by certain guidelines. Can I, should I in this situation willingly disrespect another's belief system? As Americans we do not, as our culture is one in which we respect differences.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ian on Jul 12, 2005 8:35:42 GMT -5
While you were getting caught up in the subtlety you missed TNR's glaring point (a liberal trait we conservatives have become all too familiar with).
He wasn't stating that liberals made this "art" he was highlighting the liberal media's hypocrisies as it pertains to the coverage of these two separate events. On the one hand the media heralds the submersion of a crucifix in a jar of urine as art and on the other hand they begin to condemn the entire US POW system because an unsubstantiated claim was made that the Koran was flushed down a toilet (the same combination of religious articles and human waste that they just gloried as art).
It's not complicated at all, you just have to get out of your liberal hairsplitting mindset and everything should become much clearer.
|
|
|
|
Post by scrap on Jul 12, 2005 11:58:36 GMT -5
Quote:
He wasn't stating that liberals made this "art" he was highlighting the liberal media's hypocrisies as it pertains to the coverage of these two separate events.
Typical
Well put Ian
|
|
|
|
Post by TNRighty on Jul 12, 2005 17:08:14 GMT -5
Ian and Scrap,
Thank you for understanding the essence of my post.
Medican,
I never said I was outraged at the desecration of Christian religious symbols, nor did I say I condone the desecration of the Koran, which as we know now never happened.
My point is that, as Ian and Scrap pointed out clearly, there is a double standard in the media and among liberals when it comes to the desecration of religious symbols. Piss Christ...art, Koran flushing...abuse.
You said basically that, as Americans, we should not willingly disrespect another belief system. I agree, but how can you say that and expect me to take you seriously when you also say that it is OK to artisitcally juxtapose humanity and religion by rubbing shit on Christian symbols?
If rubbing shit on a Christian religious symbol isn't disrespecting a belief system, I don't know what is. According to the words of your post, I'm guessing you would find no problem with me wiping my ass with the pages of the Koran.
You also said, "The context of prisoner of war has another set of rules and respect."
Are you saying that terrorists being held in Gitmo deserve more respect than American citizens who practice Christianity?
Lastly, don't for one minute classify that shit-rubbing as "art". It is not art, it's garbage. It requires no talent and no creativity. Anyone with a functioning sphincter and a sick mind can do that...a real modern day Rembrandt.
If I did the same thing with a Koran liberals would call for my head and you know it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ian on Jul 12, 2005 17:23:57 GMT -5
Thanks for the compliment scrap.  I'd also like to highlight a flaw in midcan's statement: When that belief system involves blowing up civilians I think we can make an exception when desecration would lead to information to snuff that flawed system. |
|
|
|
Post by scrap on Jul 12, 2005 18:30:29 GMT -5
Quote:
Unless I need to coerce some critical information and the stick is the only way that works I try to abide by certain guidelines.
Are you trying to say you might use force if force was the only way to accomplish your goal.
Watch you don't get reported to the to a higher authority in your belief system as you might be required to take your brainwashing classes again. ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by midcan5 on Jul 12, 2005 18:31:10 GMT -5
OMG, the "liberal Media" another conservative myth. Where is it? CNN? NBC? FOX? cspan? Rush? Coulter? Savage? Hannity? There are only two genuinely liberal magazines Harpers and The Nation, care for the names of some conservative ones? Lots. I know they started a radio station but that is recent and your myths are long standing. You guys have to wake up, the central implication of the post was aimed at liberals - you know those bad guys with horns. Be honest folks, easier on the conscience. And btw the abuse of the Koran has been verified and is true but we all know people who would do that so I wonder at the surprise.
"Are you saying that terrorists being held in Gitmo deserve more respect than American citizens who practice Christianity?"
In a sense yes just as our own Pows should be treated with respect. Christians aren't captives of bad art.
I talk to Muslims often, i need to ask them when they are blowing us up, most are friendly and nice to talk to so I'm sure I'll find out.
|
|
|
|
Post by midcan5 on Jul 12, 2005 18:34:16 GMT -5
And yes I am saying that, there are circumstances that require drastic action, being a liberal doesn't blind one to reality.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ian on Jul 13, 2005 11:58:05 GMT -5
I talk to Muslims often, i need to ask them when they are blowing us up, most are friendly and nice to talk to so I'm sure I'll find out. You might want to look at London, New York, Iraq, the reasons prisoners at Gitmo are being detained... Stop trying to shift focus, this discussion is in regards, as contextualized by you, to detainees and the supposed respect that should be afforded to accessories of their religion. When Rudolph blew up an abortion clinic I'm sure you classified him as a Christian (albeit a misguided one), so when thousands of Muslims participate in attacks on civilians I'll classify them as Muslims. Why should we respect the belief system of someone who is trying to kill us based that belief system? Is this to say that Islam endorses the murder of civilians? No. It is to say that this particular interpretation of Islam endorses the murder of civilians and should be disrespected in accordance with its destruction. Absolutely. Wipe the sleep out of your eyes. |
|
|
|
Post by midcan5 on Jul 13, 2005 16:09:49 GMT -5
Funny don't remember anyone referring to Randolph or McVeigh as a radical Christian fundamentalists? hmm, me neither, thought never entered my mind.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ian on Jul 13, 2005 17:12:30 GMT -5
McVeigh wasn't a radical Christian fundamentilist, in fact there are several reports connecting him to [drum roll] Iraq!!!
Rudolph wasn't a radical Christian? Why do you suppose he was blowing up abortion clinics?
|
|
|
|
Post by midcan5 on Jul 14, 2005 7:37:05 GMT -5
"McVeigh wasn't a radical Christian fundamentilist, in fact there are several reports connecting him to [drum roll] Iraq!!!"
Was he on the grassy knoll too? Oh, by the way how's that swamp land going? You still buying? I have more for you in Manhattan.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ian on Jul 14, 2005 9:22:01 GMT -5
Was he on the grassy knoll too? Oh, by the way how's that swamp land going? You still buying? I have more for you in Manhattan. That's okay, I have family in Brooklyn.  If you honestly believe we know everything about Timothy McVeigh, considering the investigation the FBI started in 2004 into the Aryan gang the Midwest Bank Robbers as well as a host of other inconclusive pieces of evidence, then I think you're the one who should be buying a bridge. This is a guy who finds double meanings if Bush goes for bike ride. Oh, and the grassy knoll theory is a lie, but if you honestly believe the official explanation for the Kennedy assassination, which totally disregards the three years Oswald spent in the USSR, then I'm really considering whether or not someone as naive as you is worth responding to. |
|
|
|
Post by TNRighty on Jul 14, 2005 16:38:20 GMT -5
Medican, All Islamic terrorist prisoners at Gitmo are given a Koran, a prayer rug, three square meals a day, and even a compass so that they'll know which way to position themselves for their prayer time! On the contrary, Americans captured by terrorists have their heads cut off on TV, and we're the bad guys? Islamic terrorists are taught to complain of mistreatment if imprisoned. They aren't dumb. They do this because they understand that there are people like you and the ACLU who will offer sympathy. They are also instructed to deface the Koran and blame it on their captors. These claims of abuse come from the terrorists themselves, and you are willing to take the word of a terrorist over that of Americans soldiers at Gitmo  These people aren't at Gitmo serving time for jaywalking or traffic violations. They were captured on the battlefield trying to kill Americans. |
|
