Enlighten Me

[OpenMind]

I'm a young adult looking for some views other than those I'm influenced with everyday. I lean left of center, but agree with a few conservative ideals. Anyway, enlighten me as to the benefits of being conservative. I'm afraid that the people around me have influenced me to lean too far left, so I'm asking you all to give me alternative views so I can be as open-minded as possible to all views.

Thanks

[GregoryA]

The one thing I would tell about conservativism, the aspect of conservatism that "converted" me, is the importance of the individual over the state. That is to me the essence of conservatism.

The neo-cons have changed all that it's true. That is why I would label myself a paleo-con.

Leftist thought basically states that the elite/vanguard of the movement or the state know better than the individual on how to live his or her life, think, speak, use his or her money and property.

[Patriot]

Open Mind:

Truly delighted that you possess the maturity to do your own investigation when it comes to what you choose to believe. All too often, young people are simply the products of their surroundings or circumstances, hence their political and social views. Of course that holds true for individuals of any age group, but particularly in the younger generations. They are lost in a sea of uncertainty in an insecure world. Their parents, after all, are the hippy generation.

So, moving forward. You wrote:


^{I'm afraid that the people around me have influenced me to lean too far left, so I'm asking you all to give me alternative views so I can be as open-minded as possible to all views.}


Conservatives stand for conservation. That's probably something you haven't considered. But, if you're a fan of conservation vis-a-vis your liberal upbringing, you'll agree with a lot of American conservative ideology. Conservatives believe in the conservation of life. They believe in the conservation of principle. They believe in the conservation of power. Put those three things together and it all adds up to hegemony.

Now, the question is, why should we be concerned with preserving anything in the first place? Well, from a practical perspective, something should be preserved if it works. Conservative principles work. They are time tested. Many liberal principles, by contrast, are not. They are relatively new in their scope of development. Conservatives like to stick with what works. It offers solidarity. That's why nearly all the top CEOs in the US are in fact diehard Republicans-- they believe in the capitolist system and know how to work successfully within it.

Now, of course we live in an age which demands global cooperation to greater and greater extents (more so than in centuries past), but the US Constitution has been emulated by virtually every other "free" country in the world which declared independence in the last 150 years. That means, we really have the gold nugget of democracy. Many of those newer democratic systems are still diamonds in the rough compared to us.

More importantly, though, is the fact that we're ahead of everyone else-- scientifically. Our space program is relatively under-funded compared to other government programs, but still, we've been the biggest investors in space technology and will be the first nationality to ultimately utilize space resources.

Why have we been so successful? It's all due to that "invisible hand", to use the term of Adam Smith in his 18th century treatise on economics, Wealth of Nations. No, "invisible hand" doesn't refer to God in this instance but rather the free market and capitolist system which allows for tremenodus economic expansion. You might already know this so I won't beat a dead horse.

Bottom line is, despite the great animosity toward the US worldwide, America is, and has always been, right. Power, like beauty, breeds jealousy. The world is jealous of everything we have. All you have to do is look in the newspaper to see the floods of illegal aliens which breach our borders in search of a better life. They despise Americans but adore America. We are the beacon of hope because we are the herald of freedom. And what is freedom? A lot more than fireworks on July 4. Freedom is your opportunity to get as rich as you can, all on your own. The opportunity to marry anyone you choose, provided you also take advantage of your opportunity to beat the pulp out of rival suitors. I can lay claim to that myself! ;D

The opportunity to be self-directed.

We Americans are wolves, really, because we are a civilized version of natural selection. Here, only the strong survive. Many socialists would like to change that, but that's because they're weak and know they cannot survive alone in the capitolist system. What does that say about who you should side with?

[OpenMind]

Wow, much clearer to me now.

A couple of things bother me:

We Americans are wolves, really, because we are a civilized version of natural selection. Here, only the strong survive. Many socialists would like to change that, but that's because they're weak and know they cannot survive alone in the capitolist system.


I would like to change the fact that only the strong survive. I also believe that I will be one of the strong in capitalist society. Now, I understand the idea that, in the U.S., anyone can work their way to the top, but I don't agree. You will see disabled people, less bright, and people in other countries who really don't have a chance. I understand that conservatism includes the attitude of the strong surviving, but, as conservatives, why can't you help the weak survive? What part of the ideology influences that? Or did I miss this point completely?

And on a much less broad scale, and a less important topic overall, what is the thinking on gay marriage? Conservatives stand for conservation of principle. Freedom is a principle belief. Religion and morals are also principle beliefs. What is the thinking that freedom is ignored because conservatives don't agree with somebody's moral beliefs?



And on Gregory's comments, I see the comparison of neo-cons and paleo-cons What major ideological differences would highlight their overall differences for me?

I'll have to say I agree with one major ideal. Conservation principles work. I don't agree with conservative stances on some issues, but I do agree that, as a whole, we have been moving in the right direction for over 200 years and conservation of the founding prinicples do work.


On other issues--some things that I'd also like another view on and how this view relates to conservative principles:

Do these issues apply to the neo-con/paleo-con divide?

War in Iraq--I have a problem with the our president implying that Iraq had horrible weapons when he really didn't have a lot of evidence. Then, when the war is over, the whole purpose has "always been" freeing an oppressed people. I have no problem with freeing an oppressed people. But, lies to get us there do trouble me.

Social Security: Conservation, why reform?

Gay Marriage as stated above

And on conservation of life: I understand conserving life through anti-abortion views, but why is life such a petty issue when conservation of power comes into play? Can conservation of life and power not come more hand-in-hand? Did we actually lose world power in the war?

Thanks for answering. I hope I did not come off as resistant to conservative views. I just wanted to state my views so I could get a fair answer that explains it in terms I can comprehend, especially on current issues.

[GregoryA]

neo-cons love large government/paleo-cons wnat to downscale government.

neo-cons are expasionistic and globalists/paleo-cons are more isolationist and nationalists.

neo-cons see outsourcing of jobs as an intergral part of their economic globalism/ paleo-cons are protectionists

neo-cons are soft on the immigration issue/paleo-cons are tough on the immigration issue.


Those are a few basic differences.

[Patriot]

Open Mind:


^{Now, I understand the idea that, in the U.S., anyone can work their way to the top, but I don't agree.}


I didn't say anyone can work their way to the top. Only the strong can. That's because inequality is born and bred in nature. The basis of the American system is not equality, but rather, free enterprise. Americans are born equal, they do not live or die equal. They are endowed by the Creator with certain rights across the board-- but not everyone pursues excellence, nor can they, whether they be inhibited by self-doubt, physical disability, or lack of resources. Sounds cruel, and to some degree it is. But that's the way it works in the animal kingdom, and that's the way it works in the US.


^{I understand that conservatism includes the attitude of the strong surviving, but, as conservatives, why can't you help the weak survive?}


We do. That's actually one of the reasons we're in Iraq right now. However, Americans as individuals ultimately sink or swim on their own. It is not our purpose, as a nation, to hold the hand of every citizen as they take their first steps. The government is merely the referee.


^{What is the thinking on gay marriage? Conservatives stand for conservation of principle. Freedom is a principle belief. Religion and morals are also principle beliefs. What is the thinking that freedom is ignored because conservatives don't agree with somebody's moral beliefs?}


Ah, excellent question. Well, the issue of gay marriage is another subject altogether and could be discussed at great length. The general conservative consensus is, as I'm sure you'd have assumed, a contraire. Yes we believe in the preservation of freedom, however, gay partnerships have historically weakened (physically and morally) all nations thus far affected. Gay marriages pose a greater threat of spreading disease, endanger child psychology as pertains to gender role, and limits population growth.

Here's something to think about: if everyone were gay, the human race would die out in a single generation. That's because there's no natural means to reproduce.

[Patriot]

www.queticofoundation.org/gallery/wolf.jpg [/img]

You looking at me? Huh? Come and get it.

[midcan5]

I am a Liberal

I wanted to answer a common question posted here of why liberal from a personal perspective.

When I grew up no one spoke much about left or right, liberal or conservative in the terms they are used now. When we weren't talking girls, we were talking cars or the draft. This was the early sixties. We weren't really politically sophisticated and the strong differences of today were completely off our radar screen. We were republicans and democrats, but no one took it very seriously and while some would argue the benefits of one candidate over another, it had none of the vitriol of today. We didn't even argue Vietnam, Communism was associated with a domino theory of falling states and we would all have to do our duty and fight it before we too fell to communism. Of course we didn't have 24 hour TV commentary to fill our heads with ideas of good and bad. Was that a naive world view, I suppose you could say so, it was simple and had none of the political emotion displayed today. We were all Americans.

Many items changed all that in my (our) mind: Vietnam and then later the collapse of the Communist block or Russian communism were important pieces. Another part of that was the rise of a Conservative sensibility backed by money and think tanks. I was not aware of this later movement until more recently. Nam made us question ourselves deeply, how could we ever lose, weren't we always right, and didn't we always win. The debate raged inside the country and many never got over it. Those of us who served the country also changed, and many took sides. The hippie and drug movement shocked many, the sixties were an interesting time for re-evaluating America and life in general. In the seventies those who survived Nam or drugs or both settled down and married - we became our parents.

Let me to backup a step. I can remember Church on Sunday, praying for the conversion of Russia and during the week pulling the shades down in our class room to prepare for nuclear holocaust. Imagine crawling under your desk in hopes you would survive the bomb. Some who post here probably did the same. Total annihilation sure focuses your political fears, clear cut enemies make politics a lot easier. But then communism died of its own incompetency and we thought not only were we winners again but we were right again, Ronald Reagan told us so. But along with Reagan's optimism there came a 'us against you feeling'. Reagan was tough, Carter was weak, and the seeds of division grew.

Am I a liberal because I was born that way. Is that it I sometimes wonder. I cannot imagine not being liberal, it would be impossible for me to say I am a conservative. How is it conservative came to mean something so alien in my mind. And yet liberal is so alien to other minds. It wasn't because we had a left wing Coulter, Savage, Rush, or Hannity bashing conservatives. I think there is a personality component to it. How you label it is difficult and prone to error but it constitutes a way of viewing life. There are a set of subjects that when mentioned can easily define where you stand in our political culture. Government, welfare, abortion, affirmative action, and taxes are among the chief ones.

Deep inside me somewhere being a conservative is similar to Plato's image of people in a cave, content with watching shadows. There is just so much more outside the cave than in it. I see conservatives as lacking in imagination and uneducated in life. Empathic experience is missing. Imagine you were born in the dark ages or during the inquisition or in any intolerant state, those times and places and ideas are conservative to me. Single issues often define or motivate conservatives, it is a narrow vision that is stiff and inflexible.

Is this intolerant of me, is this bigotry too. In a sense, yes, and my only argument for that is that when we are stuck in one frame of mind, when you refuse to question your assumptions, as I feel conservatives do, you are bound to get in trouble. You fail to see the other side may have a valid point. A conservative may reply but wait you stick to your positions too. Yes, but there is a level of openness and frankness in liberals I never see in conservatives. Genuine liberals change.

When I listen to conservative radio, I wonder how does anyone listen. The rhetoric is the rhetoric of intolerance. Often it deals with perceptions of another person, it interprets motives and reads into all statements meanings that are defined by the commentator. Its message sorts issues neatly into categories, and then labels this or that issue bad. Nothing in life so brings people together as a common foe. Everything then makes sense as 'they' are the cause. Today you would think liberals were that cause. I think the conservative movement in this country has deeply divided the nation. Terrorism should have brought us together, and it may have, had we not a mediocre president and an administration that live in a world of conservative labels.

We are all just fragile humans and it is easy or maybe it is hard to understand the fears and concerns of life. Depends on your age sometimes. Life is full of uncertainty and sometimes confusion, people are hard to understand and luck sometimes blesses the worst, but we need to get away from this politics of blame and try to understand. It is just too easy to always question and disparage the motives of others. Early I mentioned the conservative think tanks, I have noticed in the past years that criticism coming from them attains a life of its own. Consider any issue, Clinton's infidelity or a Kerry slip of tongue, soon the words pass into the conservative propaganda network and you would think that all that mattered were a few words. That all a person can be is measured in a few words has to make us wonder. Imagine if we applied this same level of scrutiny to ourselves?

So how is it we bridge this divide? We do so as we did forty years ago when we recognized we are Americans and all those who label to blame need to be called out and finally ignored. One question in the recent presindential debates was how we return to a safer past, I thought the question naive. Were depressions, world wars, fear of communism and nuclear holocaust a safer world? Hardly. My mother's tales of the depression surely impressed upon me the fragility of society. We will always have our extremists in the world, but we need to face them straight on and attempt to understand the whys. The sooner we learn we are all on this spaceship together the better it will be, the sooner we attempt to understand each other and look closely at issues and not labels the better we will be.

I will always be a liberal, I still get up each morning high on life - must be biology. For me liberal will always mean progress, fairness, discovery, art, medicine, tolerance, science, hope, sharing, responsibility, it means being alive, it means taking a chance, and it means experiencing all of the complexity of life and facing it squarely and still enjoying it. It means once in a while saying, damn, I was wrong. It comes down to living ethically. Does conservative mean those things too, I'll let a conservative answer.

midcan

[MO]

You must be a liberal. Long winded and boring, with lots of feel good rhetoric and no substance.
I think you're a liberal because you're a hippie boomer.

[midcan5]

"You must be a liberal. Long winded and boring, with lots of feel good rhetoric and no substance.
I think you're a liberal because you're a hippie boomer."

Mo, But I said that. No substance in your answer. What is a hippie boomer? Is that analysis or prejudice?

[MO]

Is that analysis or prejudice?

Prejudice? No, I'm probably a racist, sexist and homophobe, too, right? I have just observed the generation slightly older than me and think they are somewhat spoiled and whiny, as a group. I have an older sibling that falls into that group. Gen X seems to be back to more rugged individualism, which is why we want social security reform with individual choice. We also want school choice.

[midcan5]

Mo, And you said that. The older generation whiny? Huh? Those of us from the lower middle class served this country, we were the ones drafted, worked hard to get a education - used that GI bill, and worked like hell to make it. Whiny? I can still out work most youth. My wife has taught 8th grade for over 20 years you want whiny - check out the kids today. Sorry have to disagree completely - ain't true, and it is always some group pointing at another and labeling it something without real understanding.

[Dr. Gonzo]

OpenMind said:

I'm a young adult looking for some views other than those I'm influenced with everyday. I lean left of center, but agree with a few conservative ideals. Anyway, enlighten me as to the benefits of being conservative. I'm afraid that the people around me have influenced me to lean too far left, so I'm asking you all to give me alternative views so I can be as open-minded as possible to all views.

Thanks

There aren't any benefits to being conservative. By dictionary definition, conservatism means that one is opposed to change which is bad because no matter what one's ideals are, there's ALWAYS room for change.

If we rest on out laurels then things can only get worse.

[everomel]

So the liberals talk about change and peace and love and harmony and tolerance. Thats just what i want to hear. I want to hear about how they are outsourcing my country. I want to hear about how we are supposed to pay out the nose for health care for illegals. And i especially wanna hear about how I'm supposed to be tolerant no matter what i feel is right because "we are all created equal" . That is what the Libs stand for. They want to distract you with their bread and circus and steal your country and your childrens minds and morals and make a run for some touchy feely all accepting utopia. ACKKK....

[MO]

My wife has taught 8th grade for over 20 years you want whiny

LOL public school teachers are the last people I'd trust my kids with.

Conservatives are the ones who want change in the failed policies of the education and SS systems, among other things. It's the liberals that are now the establishment.