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Post by Peanut on Nov 3, 2003 20:06:56 GMT -5
ItWillNeverWork - - sorry that was a mix up in information, i was talkin about gulf war (part 1) and how THEY fought back, when the US tried to stop them from taking kuwait (cuz they wanted kuwait for the oil, as supplies started dwindling in the early 1990's) Since walter can't do math, i'll have to do it for him them  . Osama bin laden is 54 years old, in 1980, he would've been 30 (or there abouts), as would most of his al-quida members at the time(they weren't HIS members, but they would become his members in the late 90's). THEY were trained by the cia to kill soviets, as walter himself said. This training is not forgotten after the gulf war (part 1). So what does osama do after he goes crazy? he trains more and more people, to oh i dunno, HIJACK A PLANE and use it as a weapon. Add in his twisted ideals of islam, and poof you have a cult leader/terrorist with CIA training (explaining why he cant be found) leading men with the same training. Like i said, the united states created a problem, and now they are trying to fix it. ItWillNeverWork - sorry about the mix up! |
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Post by ItWillNeverWork on Nov 3, 2003 20:16:33 GMT -5
I was going to reply to what stonewall posted but I think Peanut made the point for me. It was not the hijackers themselves that were trained by the CIA, it was the Al-Qaida leaders such as Osama Bin laden back in the 1980's who then went on to train the hijackers.
Do you believe this to be nonsencical conspiracy theory Stonewall?
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Post by Q on Nov 4, 2003 9:15:36 GMT -5
Yes,
That is correct. In the 1980s, they were not yet known as Al Qaeda. They were known as the Mujahadeen. They were the resistance guerilla fighters against the Soviet incursion. Now for the rest of the story. I believe it was said that there are 2 sides to every story? So here's the other side.
Back in the 1970s, the Islamic fundamentalist/terrorists in Afghanistan were running raids accross the border into the southern Soviet Union. This had gone on for years. Now understand, I'm not defending communism here, but I am defending a country's right to defend itself and its citizens. After about 4 years of this trouble, the Soviet Union had had enough. The problem with the Soviet Union was that they tended to be very secretive about themselves and the events taking place in their country. This did not help their cause when they launched their campaign into Afghanistan, to quell the insurgents. Of course, it couldn't be helped [while they were at it] to prop up a new socialist/communist regime. Just an added bennefit I suppose. Anyway, Carter and company became outraged and boycotted the olymics in 1980. Reagan took office shortly thereafter, and promptly had the CIA identify and start supplying/training the counter guerilla fighters, at that time known as the Mujahadeen. One has only to look back in the historical records [magazines/newspapers etc.] of the day, to find a running history supporting this.
Now for the blame part. Personally, I do not blame anyone necessarily for this mess. In general, I do blame the US government for their continued policy of medling in the internal affairs of other countries and cultures. The Islamic fundamentalist sees this as "Americanizing" or "westernizing" of a culture. One of the basic tenets in the Koran, is that the people must be ruled by a king or dictator who has been sanctioned by God [or Allah]. There is nothing that supports any kind of democratic rule. Capitalism and capitalistic banking practices are also a no-no. We as Americans do not understand how anyone could not support "freedom". However, beliefs steeped in religious zealotry often defy logic.
Am I defending Islamic fundamentalism here? No. But one must "know his enemy as he knows himself" <Tsun Tsu>. To understand the Islamic, I have a copy of and have read the "Holy Koran". It must be noted that while so many Islamics proclaim that Islam is a religion of peace, the Koran paints a vastly different picture. Also it is prudent to consider the history of these people. Wherever Islam has bordered a different religion, there has been war and terrorism. Adolph Hitler once said: "It is ashame we are not Islamic in faith. They should be the religion of the superior race, not this weepy waily soft peddling Christianity". Hitler may have been a mad man, but he was not stupid, which was what made him so dangerous.
Islam instills in its practitioners an eagerness to die for the sake of Islam. Please note, there is a big difference between a "willingness to die" and an "eagerness to die". Most Americans are willing to die for the sake of freedom, however, they are not necessarily eager to die for anything. Those like Hitler, Sadam, Bin Laden etc. need young impressionables to have an "eagerness to die" for their causes. Hence, the Mujahadeen were very trainable in Americas quest against the "Evil Empire". At that time, no one could have seen the future. No one could have predicted that we would have created a monster. "Arm-chair quarterbacking" is easy when you have hindsight. What was Carter's or Reagan's sins? The same as every president who has sat in that office since FDR. The penchant for interfering in the affirs of other countries and cultures, usually masked by phrases like: "Its for the sake of the children", or "Its for the sake of freedom", or "Its for the sake of the survival of so many innocent people".
What this country needs, is a lesson from Star Trek, and the Federation's "Prime directive of non-interferance". Science fiction, I grant you, but wisdom at its purest to be sure.
Sleep well America - Q.
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Post by Ogilvy on Nov 4, 2003 20:51:19 GMT -5
You mean you didn't know about the CIA training of the WTC pilots? Well, here's how it went. Several of the soon-to-be hijackers contacted Elvis, who still works for the government somewhere in the Bermuda Triangle, and asked for pilot training. Luckily, the remains of the UFO that crashed in Roswell were still in use and the pilots got their initial training on it. Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster were brought in to teach the terrorists how to aim the planes directly at the towers and make the resulting fireball look like the face of Satan. They then received the last of their training by Deep Throat, who is actually Jim Morrison, and were then sent on their way to slay innocent civilians by the thousands. I can't beleive you've never heard this until now. It's all very well documented... Are you an idiot or something?! You left out the part where all of the former presidents gather to perform a satanic ritual to appease the malicious fifth dimensional aliens that have been pulling the strings in this world ever since the crusades many hundred years ago. Friends, terrorism is not the main issue here! We must fight the thousand-year oppression of the human race by the Illuminati! They are responsible for everything bad in this world. It doesn't matter if you're a liberal, a conservative, or just plain nuts! No matter what you think is bad, the Illuminati is responsible for it! Terrorism doesn't even exist! Nothing exists! It's all an Illuminati illusion! We are actually spirits connected with the Great Wheel, and the Illuminati has imprisoned us here on this mortal plane to serve their own diabolical purposes! We used to have powerful psychic abilities, but now they have been dulled by a millenium of imprisonment. Rebellion has been suppressed by Illuminati technology planted in our brains to decrease our psychic capacity. The last true freedom fighter was Jesus Christ, who was born with unnaturally strong psychic powers that could not be contained by the psychic stabilization implants. Jesus Christ saw through the Illuminati deceptions and illusions and used them to rise to a pinnacle of psychic power. Channeling this psychic energy he could perform amazing feats such as walking on water, controlling the winds and sea, making bread and fish from rocks, and even curing the diseased and crippled. Jesus Christ traveled the lands in secrecy searching for any who had the capacity to realize their psychic potential. After a period of ten years, he found twelve such men, who later become known as the disciples. He was a mentor to them, teaching them how to channel their psychic energies to break through the Illuminati illusion and to combat the fifth dimensional aliens. Jesus and his twelve disciples fought the Illuminati illusion for many years. The greatest of their achievments was when they assassinated Julius Caesar, supreme overlord of the Roman sector. For a moment it seemed as if the Illuminati illusion would collapse, but somehow the Illuminati masterminds devised a way to avert disaster. Unfortunately, Jesus Christ and his twelve disciples were vaporized by Nazi cyborgs in 450 AD, bringing an end to the rebellion. But we can continue what Jesus Christ started so many years ago! We can defeat the Illuminati! First you must denounce all Illuminati illusions. Strip off all of your clothes, for they are nothing more than Illuminati illusions. Destroy all of your worldly possessions, for they too are Illuminati illusions. This means your $3487 computer, your high definition television set, your dvd player, your Jaguar, your refrigerator, microwave, in fact everything that makes life convenient. They are all Illuminati illusions and they must all be denounced and discarded if the rebellion is to be successful. Then you must all in unity march down the streets of the cities and the towns and the wide open country and proclaim your dissent and shatter the Illuminati illusion! Once we have all rebelled, the power of the illusion will weaken and collapse under the weight of our will. Then can we regain our untapped psychic power and defeat the Illuminati with one single concentrated psychic blast on the fifth dimension. Then and only then can we rejoin the Great Wheel which we were violently separated from so long ago. And of course you want to rejoin the Great Wheel, because that's a lot better than staying here with your filthy Illuminati illusions, your Jaguar, your $4859 computer, high definition television, dvd player, refrigerator, microwave, 50 gigabyte collection of pornography, etc. All of those things are meaningless material possessions! What truly matters is humanity's reunification with the Great Wheel and the restorement of our psychic powers! (Note: This is DEFINITELY not meant to be historically accurate.) |
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Post by ItWillNeverWork on Nov 4, 2003 21:19:57 GMT -5
hmm
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Post by Stonewall on Nov 5, 2003 11:59:54 GMT -5
Ogilvy -- what are you doing? You spoke too soon! All of this was going to be revealed on Larry King Live on New Years Eve! Now we'll never rejoin the Wheel! All is lost!!!  |
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Post by ItWillNeverWork on Nov 5, 2003 19:26:11 GMT -5
I think that some people here may need to read a few books to improve their knowledge of the world. For a country who were at cold war since 1945 you sure do have a lot of ignorance about cold war history. I'm not trying to be rude or patrionising when I say that but you seemingly have a misunderstanding of A) Your own history B) Our intentions in stating what is merley a fact. We are not trying to put forward some 'conspiracy' here. There is none. For a conspiracy to exist information has to be hidden, people in power have to conspire. There is no conspiring, there is no hiding of the truth. If you were to ask George Bush tommorow who trained the Mujahidin in the 1980's he would tell you straight that it was the CIA. The CIA have done many things that when taken out of context may seem un-American but bear in mind that the world was at war with the USSR and so to some, i.e US administrations, the ends justified the means. Take a look at the CIA fact book on Afghanistan www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/af.html"The Soviet Union invaded in 1979, but was forced to withdraw 10 years later by anti-Communist mujahidin forces supplied and trained by the US, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and others." See? There is no conspiracy to hide the truth. There is no claim of conspiracy. There is just historical fact. |
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Post by ItWillNeverWork on Nov 5, 2003 21:08:59 GMT -5
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Post by quinwound on Nov 18, 2003 1:39:09 GMT -5
Mo, it's always better to get both sides of the story. This is why I'm on a conservative messaging board, because I want to stay informed of others viewpoints instead of remaining ignorant towards other's views. Hey same reason I am here. |
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Post by Stonewall on Nov 21, 2003 17:06:20 GMT -5
Not to be insulting at all, but I think some people on this board: A. Don't understand sarcasm & B. Need to lighten up and not look at themselves as the sole source of enlightenment on this board. Note the grave concern on my face.  |
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Post by questvito on Nov 21, 2003 17:15:34 GMT -5
Have any of you seen how these recent attacks on the peace loving Moslems in Istanbul, Morrocco, etc. have been engineered by Bush?
My opinion is that the CIA is behind these attacks and are intended only to generate support for Bush's misguided war on terrorism.
WAKE UP AND SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING TO US!
Herr Bush is in charge and don't you freaking forget it!
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Post by vito on Nov 21, 2003 17:27:59 GMT -5
This is the real vito. Please note that posts that have recently appeared by "questvito" have nothing to do with me. I have posted as "vito" or, when I am too lazy to log in, as "guestvito". I will no longer be doing the latter as it is clear that someone is trying to take advantage of it. My apologies to the administrators and members of this board for leaving myself open to this.   |
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Post by Walter on Nov 23, 2003 10:02:55 GMT -5
Vito, I've been there and it's really annoying when someone steals your name. The real answer is forv the owner to require login for everyone...but that's expensive and awkward.
That said, our local PBS station (KPFK), supported in part by our tax dollars, spent most of Friday accusing Herr Bush (their words) of arranging the attacks in Turkey and Morocco in order to take the heat off him and Israel.
They interviewed "leading academics" who "supported" the theory by emphasizing the peaceful nature of Islam and adding a few "I wouldn't be surprised if Israel planned some of the attacks against themselves to gain world sympathy."
In other words, while clearly it wasn't you who posted that comment, it appears to be based on current talking points by Liberals.
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Post by Walter on Nov 23, 2003 10:10:11 GMT -5
Continuing the left's theory that Bush and Balir are behind the Istanbul bombings, quoting from a news article yeaterday by Reuters"Some in the crowd also suggested that U.S. and other intelligence services were directly responsible.
"I believe these attacks carry the fingerprints of the CIA, Mossad and (Turkish intelligence service) MIT. They want to push Turkey and America closer together after recent tensions between them," said 22-year-old engineering student Mustafa Colak.
"We know who the murderers are," said a caption on one placard, below pictures of U.S. President George W. Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair."With friends like this and the US lefties, who needs enemies? |
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Post by vito on Nov 23, 2003 13:13:49 GMT -5
Thanks for the sympathetic words, Walter, they are appreciated. Naturally I didn't hear the KPFK program you mention, but are you sure it wasn't someone on the station you should be attributing those views to rather than the station itself? There are some pretty extreme views out there that manage to get airtime. I wouldn't describe them as characterizing the views of all liberals, however. That's sort of like me saying that what Jerry Falwell or Tom Delay say is characteristic of all conservatives. Hmmm.. maybe that's okay with you. To charge Bush or the Israelis with direct complicity in the Istanbul bombings is pretty farfetched until more evidence of that complicity comes to light, and I for one don't expect any such evidence to be forthcoming. However, to charge the Bush administration with helping to generate an atmosphere where such attacks are more likely, is not farfetched at all. It is in fact a prediction many of us on the left made when Bush embarked on his Iraq adventure and which we now see being fulfilled by the hour. This is as close as one comes in international and political affairs to scientific proof. Anyhow, whoever 'questvito' is, he seems to listen to the same radio station that you do!  |
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