Conservatives and Liberals: Can we end the fight?

[Angmar]

"Lo, I do say unto you; a wise man's heart ever guideth him unto the Right." -St. Paul

[Ogilvy]

Angmar said:

"Lo, I do say unto you; a wise man's heart ever guideth him unto the Right." -St. Paul

What the heck?! Don't you ever say anything useful?!

[Angmar]

Apparently not to your definition, but then, neither do you.

[scummybear]

HUH?

[Angmar]

Did you have a question?

[scummybear]

Yes, I'm wondering if you are trying to evoke some sort of dialog with your numerous, not to mention weird posts. What is/are your point(s)??

[Ogilvy]

Angmar said:

Apparently not to your definition, but then, neither do you.

You probably haven't read a single one of my posts. How funny that you would defend yourself in such a wholly ineffective manner.

You know, Angmar, you are probably the first person I have ever met who is as arrogant and egotistical as I am. We both possess a complete confidence in our beliefs that is shared by the greatest men who ever lived-Napoleon Bonaparte, Julius Caesar, Alexander the Great...it is so sad that such a great gulf of intelligence separates us, and that you are so taken to extremism. Otherwise we would become excellent friends, or at least you would be a worthy competitor.

As matters stand now, you are hardly worth debating with. Quite sad.

Take my advice. Extremism, either liberal or conservative, will not get you anywhere in this life. Take a practical, centrist approach. It can only lead to success.

Such committment to conservatism or liberalism shall only add more fuel to the fire. What this world needs is strong, courageous, risk-taking, centrist men who can force themselves upon the barrier of petty partisan propaganda and shatter it once and for all. We need a man who can cry out to the world, saying, "Turn away from your pathetic idols, your Ann Coulter, your Al Franken, and embrace the truth!" We need people who can lead the world into an age of true debate and true thinking.

This senseless Republican/Democrat, Liberal/Conservative, Left/Right garbage will divide the country. Already I see people who cannot stand their opposing ideology, be it liberalism or conservatism, and they all flock to their idols, be it Ann Coulter or Al Franken. They are both lying scum. It sickens me.

[Angmar]

My first and foremost point for this topic is simple--it's very difficult for conservatives and liberals to get along, simply because they hold different values and expectations of society. After my observations, I've concluded that conservatives generally hold more logical views. Many disagree with me. I've had an idea, that perhaps the US should split into conservative and liberal areas, and do away with federal taxes, run everything locally--but then the liberals have an inherent problem--there are no longer any conservatives to leech progtressive taxation from. What most liberals fail to realize is that, even if you made a 100% property and income tax, and divided all of the money in the country equally to every citizen, in ten to twenty years, the rich/poor distribution would be exactly the same. Hence, for the most part, liberals and conservatives most often have irresolvable differences.

[Angmar]

And Ogilvy, if I am truly undeserving of your time, you wouldn't bother taking five minutes to try to degrade me. The idea is self-defeating.

[Ogilvy]

Angmar said:

And Ogilvy, if I am truly undeserving of your time, you wouldn't bother taking five minutes to try to degrade me. The idea is self-defeating.

I said it was not worth it debating with you. If you force me to debate, then I am obligated to do so. But you do not seem to have any proficiency for the fine art of debating. So far, you seem to have four strategies: Quote religious verses, Say something racist, say something that has little substance, and this little gem, the self-defeating argument. Everything that you have said up to this point falls under these four categories, and this is why I am loathe to debate with you.

I prefer the Socratic method of dialogue, where both parties are mutually interested in achieving one objective truth. Extremism such as that which you have shown, by its very nature, is not conducive to such debate.

[Angmar]

But there you are, you're now glorifying Western civilization--taking after the wisdom of Socrates. Done like a true conservative, I appluad you. My "racist comments" are, in truth, factual. I am in favor of equality, but I am not in favor of these ridiculous little programs, affirmative action, etc. All that aside, however, I would be delighted to debate on any subject.

[Ogilvy]

Angmar said:

But there you are, you're now glorifying Western civilization--taking after the wisdom of Socrates. Done like a true conservative, I appluad you. My "racist comments" are, in truth, factual. I am in favor of equality, but I am not in favor of these ridiculous little programs, affirmative action, etc. All that aside, however, I would be delighted to debate on any subject.

As far as affirmitive action goes, I despise it. All it does is attempt to create an artificial elite, thinking no doubt that the blacks are too stupid to do anything themselves.

I say it is pathetic. Every man should have to climb up the social ladder by the sweat of his own brow, and not be helped along the way because someone wants to conduct a grand social experiment. Prestige, honor, wealth, all of these things must be earned.

My disagreement with you lies your statements, made in several other threads, that we should invade this or that country because they are Muslim or non-Christian or whatever. If you can defend these comments in a way that appears to be non-racist, then I will respect you. I do respect your position on affirmative action.

Sadly, this thread does not seem well suited for such a debate. I fear that we may hijack this thread if we continue in this conversation for too long. A few more posts will be fine, but we should get this thread back on track afterwards.

I must say that your recent posts indicate that you do have potential for reasonable debate. I have misjudged you, it seems. In the future, I am sure that debating with you could be very interesting.

Do you intend to stay on this board?

[Angmar]

I do indeed, and I'll look forward to our future debates.


I am very devoutly Christian, as I'm sure you have noticed, and I am, for the most part, irritated by Moslem presences worldwide. Christians, however, are told to try to convert members of other religions rather than killing them. In Moslem Shari'a, or their holy law, one is instructed to kill a moslem who converts to another faith. It is largely for this reason that the two religions are virtually incompatible. This argument does not by any means have to be racist--one finds Moslems in Africa, the Middle East, parts of Asia, etc. The Moslems in Turkey are considered Caucasian in race. I suppose I hold a grudge on the Turks due to the fact that they now occupy latter day Byzantium. Furthermore, they desecrated the Haghia Sophia, which is amongst the greatest churches in the world. Overall, I suppose I should push aside my own objections and focus on priorities at hand.

[Ogilvy]

Angmar said:

I do indeed, and I'll look forward to our future debates.


I am very devoutly Christian, as I'm sure you have noticed, and I am, for the most part, irritated by Moslem presences worldwide. Christians, however, are told to try to convert members of other religions rather than killing them. In Moslem Shari'a, or their holy law, one is instructed to kill a moslem who converts to another faith. It is largely for this reason that the two religions are virtually incompatible. This argument does not by any means have to be racist--one finds Moslems in Africa, the Middle East, parts of Asia, etc. The Moslems in Turkey are considered Caucasian in race. I suppose I hold a grudge on the Turks due to the fact that they now occupy latter day Byzantium. Furthermore, they desecrated the Haghia Sophia, which is amongst the greatest churches in the world. Overall, I suppose I should push aside my own objections and focus on priorities at hand.

I have recently become a Christian, and as of right now I am reading Luke. I'm a rather moderate Christian, though, believing that religion is a lone pilgrimage. The only items I need are myself, a Bible, faith, a good heart, and Jesus. I do not care to attend church or any other religious gatherings. I do not want my view of God's Word to be intruded upon by conflicting views. I want to keep my interpretations.

I do believe that Saint Augustine said something of the effect that the Bible has great depth, as it can be interpreted in so many different ways, and that this is one of the reasons why it is so beautiful.

Not all Muslims believe in that whole "convert-to-another-religion-and-die-infidel" thing. I would not dismiss the compatibility of the two religions merely for that reason.

It is sad that the Byzantine empire fell in 1453, but with it the Middle Ages came to an end and the Renaissance was beginning.

[yeaaaa]

There are some awesome strong points here (even if i don't agree, i still respect the side)- some good evidence and support- but no offense to a couple of people- I don't think the best idea is to "screw everyone (foreigners)" because our economy actually depends on them (example: talk about trade...hello??? and I enjoy getting my organic strawberries and vegetables for less than 20 dollars (thanks), I love my vacations too, we also make lots of money in foreign countries, and thats not even skimming the surface). I think that I WOULD care if foreigners hated us...Anyways-- Sara, good job for thinking rationally and reasonably. People listen much more when they don't feel like they are being attacked, so here's a high five. MO- there isn't anything too terrible about being optimistic, its good that there are optimists and pessimists in this world. Everyone on this board has strong values and beliefs and i don't believe that they will change their minds by reading posts, but seeing other valid points are wonderful-- Thank you. I think a lot of people post points and read other posts not to discuss important issues at hand, but because they want to enforce what they already believe. They pick and choose what they want to hear--I really hope we can end this fight, it'll be better for us all.