A Complicated Subject

[FRED]

Sometimes I go out to the very edge of the charted universe to bring back a simple point and I often lose many during the trip. It’s my way and I'm glad you have the patience to follow my zigzagging thought process to an intelligent conclusion. You may not always agree with my observations but hopefully I will never disappoint.

[Foamy Dog]

Fred,

I just wanted to echo logan42 in saying that you hit the nail on the head.

Society has clouded the works with jargon and "political correctness" to try to make us swallow some things that we would otherwise spit out in a heartbeat. It's getting worse and the liberal media is a big factor in shoveing this stuff down the peoples throats. Since satallite and cable came into the picture with 24 hour news channels and 100's of channels of crap, we now have a full fledge brainwashing machine to inundate us with the stuff they want us to eat.

Some folks are realizing this however. The jargon, the garbage and the political correctness is giving them a tummy ache. That's what this site and many others poping up like it are all about: (thanks to logan for the inspiration for the following) to have folks wake up and start puking!

--FD

[GD]

Hey FD,
I just love a good debate. I will just put my opinion down. First of all, I am pro-choice, but I am one of few people in my area that have the ability to see the veiws of another side, in most cases anyway. I believe that both parties should have a decision in this, not just the woman, nor just the man. I support safe sex (that rather than abstinence I believe), but if they are "irresponsible" or the safe sex fails, then I don't think that they should have to pay with their future. I say this because that is what is changed with supporting of a child. However, adoption may be the better choice, I am not sure of that.
I cannot see all of your view on this though. Propably because humanity has not yet earned my respect, with the choices that we have made, the things that many believe. But I do think that mankind is heading toward a wiser future and, quite possibly, every person may count.

[Foamy Dog]

To tell you the truth, though you are pro-choice, I looks like we agree on most points of the issue.

Safe responsible sex would cut down the need for the discussion quite a bit. As for abstainance, well, Moe makes a great point in General Rants in the thread called Women's Rights about sex before marrage. Though I will remain neutral on the subject, the post makes a very good case.

I agree that if safe sex fails or people are irresponsible that they should not have to pay with their future but mostly for the child's sake. Being brought up unwanted is a not a good thing and neither is irresponsibility.

I agree that humanity has made some bad choices. Some very bad choices so I understand your view about mankind as a whole. George Carlin once said that he hates people -- an individual, a person is just great, but as a whole mankind has really messed up.

I agree with him but why is it that most folks seem reasonable and caring enough when you talk with them (almost everyone has a heart) but when it comes to making big decisions as a group we all seem to stink? Sorry, I'm getting off the subject here. Perhaps humanity warrents its own thread?

Back to adoption. I think adoption is a wonderful and fair answer. The child's life is spared, the birth parents will neither have to deal with the guilt that many experience after abortion nor will they be forced to try to raise a child that they cannot afford or want. The adopting paretns get a child to love and care for and a void is filled for them. The child gets love, affection and a chance at life.

I sure appreceated when I was a pup and I still do.

--FD

[FRED]

I wonder if some organization or business made adoption as easy as Planned Parenthood made abortion if we would see many more adoptions?

Why don't right-to-lifers lobby to make adoption easier and profitable so companies and organizations could spring up around it as they have around abortion.

[Foamy Dog]

Excellent idea!

The adoption process it riddled with red tape. Certain precautions are needed but this option should be made easier for both the birth parents and the adopting parents.

I think that right to lifers should make more of an effort in supporting this. I think saying abortion is a bad thing isn't enough; we need to offer this as a viable alternative.

I have found that just saying "you shouldn't do that" and just leaving people with no alternative
isn't nearly as effective as saying "rather than doing that, you could do this."

[GD]

That is an intelligent statement (individuals are good but as a whole mankind can be somewhat disruptive). Perhaps if working as a community, nation, etc., was done on an individual level where everyone could offer something, but this would be done for the whole. Just an idea.
Anyway, abortion probably would be a good option. Now this next question is not my arguement, but I would like to know your opinion. Wouldn't this cause a dramatic increase in the rate of our population growth, which would quicken our approach to overpopulation?
Remember this is just what I have heard sometimes, I am not really saying this as my own statement.
And the problems with overpopulation could be things such as less resources, less food. All of facilities used to house childeren who are up for adoption may not have the resources for this.
I ask this question because chances are that there would be a dramatic increase in childeren who are put up for adoption as time passes. The actual event of total overpopulation probably won't occure for awhile at any rate.

[GD]

sorry i meant adoption on that fifth line of my last message "Anyway, ABORTION probably would be a good option."
not abortion

[Foamy Dog]

Good question.

I think the number of children being put up for adoption may increase but not drastically; in fact, the birth rate might even drop a tiny bit.

If the adoption option is made an easier one but abortion is no longer an option, this might just raise the responsibility level. In other words, more folks may take practicing safe sex more seriously. After all, carrying a child for nine months is not an easy task.

[kit2002]

There is no such thing as "safe sex". With condom failure rates. And the fact that most std's can get thru a condom anyways. HPV and HIV as the most deadly examples of these.

The only way to prevent pregnancy 100% of the time is abstinace. As in don't do it. Works 100% of the time. No sex ie. no pregnancy no std's.

This is growing in popularity. Take responsiblility and don't have sex.

The decline in out of wedlock births of late stems from this trend.

Lets hope and pray that it continues.

[Foamy Dog]

Agreed, on all points.

--FD

[kit2002]

I am glad that at nineteen when I get pregnant I didn't know about abortion. When I found out about it I was appaled. I could not imagine someone wanting to kill there own flesh and blood there child. As a mother who protects here young like a fierce lioness. I wanted no harm to come to my child.

In my mind there is no reason for abortion absolutly none. With the risk of the mother usually there is more risk in the abortion even death with legal abortion. With the rape or incest factor having been a survivor of incest myself. It is not the childs fault so why punish the survivor or the child for what the perpetrator did? Why add insult to injury.

I don't look at my children and see the other person I see my child. A unique individual "fearfully and wonderfully made" - by God.

They have there own fingerprints, eye color, hair color and tempermant. They have there own tone of voice, likes and dislikes. No one is exactly like the other.

I have always loved them with all my heart and always will.

God loves us so much no matter what we do. He will forgive us if we ask Him too. Hopefully our children that we are killing by the millions will forgive us too.

People didn't cry out when Hitler killed millions of Jews. How can we be silent when the blood of dead children cries out tho God.

We are allowing the slaughter of those who are "fearfully and wonderfully made" by God.

America Bless God. Turn your hearts back before its too late. Harden not your heart.


God Bless those who are doing all they can to save babies from being aborted.

aborted - putting an end to something putting an end to a life.

Thank's to those at crisis pregnancy centers I have four beautiful daughters.

Four saved from murder.

Praise the Lord.

[Foamy Dog]

Well said.

Thank you for sharing your experience with us.

I also encourage you to share it with others; it may help someone faced with the same decision.

I myself was an unwanted pregnacy but thankfully was spared and adopted from birth. I'm thankful for the chance at life.

My wife, my nephew and my older sister, for medical reasons, were not supposed to have been born. The doctors said all three births were going to be impossible and that they should be "taken" as they put it.

All three are alive, well and very much loved. The youngest of these three is now 25. Though neither became President nor became famous, there are many people whose lives have been touched by them and we are all very happy that they were given the chance.

Just thought I should share my experience too.

--FD

[kit2002]

We should each share our stories there probably are a lot of similiar ones out there.

I was adopted too.

When I was pregnant with my twins I had two concerened people in my life give me thier opinions. One was to abort and the other was to give them up for adoption.

The reason behind this advice was that my husband was abusive and alcoholic. They were concerned about bringing a child into that environment. I choose neither and ended up leaving him when the twins were 6 mo. old.

I am so glad I didn't follow the advice to have an abortion. My children are really blessings.

[Foamy Dog]

Wonderful!

These stories are just a few examples of what can be lost from abortion.

Children, the people they grow up to be and the children they might have had. Whose lives may they have touched?

Lots to condider once one realizes the long term effects of just wiping a life out of existance.

--FD