Muslims

[Evergreen1]

Hmmm, forgot to enter a subject line, then when I hit the back button I lost the entire post! OK here's my question again: Actually I think I'd need a liberal forum, but maybe someone here can shed some light...

How come Muslims can attack and kill people all over the globe at an alarming rate and people will defend them by saying, "That's not ALL Muslims!!" But if one Catholic priest out of 50,000 molests someone, the ENTIRE Catholic church is condemned, if one out of 1,000,000 pro-lifers bomb an abortion clinic, the ENTIRE movement is condemned??

"Then people lie and say it's not a violent and coercive religion, NO??
Check this passage from the Koran:

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."


FIGHT? SLAY? That's not violent?



TEXT

[ItWillNeverWork]

I guess the context and interpretation of the scripture has to be taken into acount. I do not know how a muslim would explain that specific quote but from speaking to work colleagues it seems pretty clear that the quote is not representative of most muslims.

My work colleagues tell me that according to Islam it is not allowed for them to even tell me I am wrong in my different beliefs, let alone be violent towards me because of them.

Saying this, the one element of Islam (or at least the view of Islam that is presented to me by those I have spoken to) is the attitude towards Judaism. It seems that anti-semitism can stem from Islam at least in some cases. I wonder though whether this anti-semitism is the result of the religion or of the person following the religion.

[RC364]

Evergreen1 said:

Hmmm, forgot to enter a subject line, then when I hit the back button I lost the entire post! OK here's my question again: Actually I think I'd need a liberal forum, but maybe someone here can shed some light...

How come Muslims can attack and kill people all over the globe at an alarming rate and people will defend them by saying, "That's not ALL Muslims!!" But if one Catholic priest out of 50,000 molests someone, the ENTIRE Catholic church is condemned, if one out of 1,000,000 pro-lifers bomb an abortion clinic, the ENTIRE movement is condemned??

"Then people lie and say it's not a violent and coercive religion, NO??
Check this passage from the Koran:

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."


FIGHT? SLAY? That's not violent?





TEXT

The only problem I have with your post is the comment about Catholic Priests. It was more than one, by far, and the church itself did not handle the situation well.
I don't believe man needs to be alone to serve God, and that is not what God intended. That is why he created Eve. He knew man needed a woman.

As far as "the quote not being representative of most Muslims", it doesn't matter. The point is, that is what they and their "good book" teach.

[Evergreen1]

I said IF one priest out of 50,000... if you are honest with yourself and did a PERCENTAGE of molesting priests to the total priests in the world and PERCENTAGE of Muslims that are involved in a terrorist attack, you'd see that it is a MUCH MUCH higher percentage, that is my point. But all you hear is how ROTTEN the entire Catholic church is, and how heaven forbid we shouldn't condemn all Muslims. Every terrorist attack was committed by Muslims. Was every molested child in the world molested by a PRIEST?

[ItWillNeverWork]

As far as "the quote not being representative of most Muslims", it doesn't matter. The point is, that is what they and their "good book" teach.

And here lies the problem with religion as a concept. Its the unquestioning belief in a set of doctrines, doctrines that are then unchanging despite evidence or ethical considerations to the opposite.. Religion is a dangerous way of forming beliefs.

I might add that this anti semitism was shared by the only christian in the room. Apparently its because the Jews killed christ. (I sense this person has no understanding of the religion they follow and that could be the same for the muslim).

Eigther way I find it disturbing. Their comments have turned me against all religion regardless of whether the beliefs are good or bad. It is the process by which thruths are derived. Religion has it all backwards, it starts with a belief from which all else stems from. This means that the belief is unquestioned.

Science on the other hand has the investigations first and from that stems a belief, the belief is therefor able to change if evidence to the contrary emerges.

What I'm trying to say is that ALL religion has potential to be dangerous. Islam just happens to be in the forfront at this preiod in history.

[BOLO]

[ItWillNeverWork]

Hmmm, thanks for the enlightened response.

[RC364]

Evergreen1 said:

I said IF one priest out of 50,000... if you are honest with yourself and did a PERCENTAGE of molesting priests to the total priests in the world and PERCENTAGE of Muslims that are involved in a terrorist attack, you'd see that it is a MUCH MUCH higher percentage, that is my point. But all you hear is how ROTTEN the entire Catholic church is, and how heaven forbid we shouldn't condemn all Muslims. Every terrorist attack was committed by Muslims. Was every molested child in the world molested by a PRIEST?

Sorry! Sheesh! You don't need to yell at me!

I understand your point, Evergreen, but I still stand by my opinion that the Catholic Church did not handle the situation well and that it IS important for a man to be with a woman, and that is why I think the Catholic church is faced with these particular problems.

Like the picture and I agree with the message of your post BOLO, no matter how well meaning some people might be when it comes to their "religion."

[Evergreen1]

I'm sorry RC I wasn't angry...
When I write I like to write like I talk, with an emphasis on certain words and the only way that comes across in writing is by capitalizing the word (or course on Microsoft word if I write a letter I can italisize - I wish I could SPELL!! LOL!) but I don't know how to do that here (OR change the color of the word)

You do need emphasis because if someone reading it changes the emphasis, the whole meaning will change.

I'm anal, what can I tell ya!

[RC364]

I completely understand.

[uac84244525]

ItWillNeverWork said:

Saying this, the one element of Islam (or at least the view of Islam that is presented to me by those I have spoken to) is the attitude towards Judaism. It seems that anti-semitism can stem from Islam at least in some cases. I wonder though whether this anti-semitism is the result of the religion or of the person following the religion.

I know very little about Islam, but I have heard several times (and most Muslims' beliefs seem to confirm this) that the Koran does have anti-Semitic passages. As I stated, I know very little about Islam, but I do know that it started somewhere between 400 and 600 BC. Christianity (an extension of Judaism) was flourishing, and everyone knew who the Jews were by this point. It seems to me that Mohammed sort of liked Judaism and Christianity, and so he spun up a cross between the two, added his own twists to it, and then called it Islam. Now, although Mohammed liked Judaism and Christianity, he for some reason did not like the people who practiced Judaism. He was no real fan of Christians either, but something about the Jews just really made him angry. Mohammed hated Jews, and this was reflected in his new religion's rule book -- the Koran.

I may be completely wrong on this, but it seems to make sense. Anyone know anything that can confirm/deny this theory?

[BOLO]

Hmmm, thanks for the enlightened response

Hmmm. Response: Snide
..............................Sarcastic
..............................Rude
Was not aware there were standards you established.
Did I fail to meet them?
Was my reply unsuitable?
Did my reply put it into perspective?
Did it exemplify my feelings, and reflect what I thought?
Was that not good enough for you?
How enlightened are you?
Is your superior judgment making position comfortable?
You posted. I replied.
If my reply was not suitable then keep your snide, sarcastic, rude, remarks to yourself, and don't post, cause it will happen again
I was not kidding with my reply.
It is the way I feel.
I won't make sort shrift of yours, you don't make short shrift of mine.
Trying to set yourself up as an intellectual superior leaves you open to negative assessment.

[RC364]

ItWillNeverWork said:

And here lies the problem with religion as a concept. Its the unquestioning belief in a set of doctrines, doctrines that are then unchanging despite evidence or ethical considerations to the opposite.. Religion is a dangerous way of forming beliefs.

I might add that this anti semitism was shared by the only christian in the room. Apparently its because the Jews killed christ. (I sense this person has no understanding of the religion they follow and that could be the same for the muslim).

Eigther way I find it disturbing. Their comments have turned me against all religion regardless of whether the beliefs are good or bad. It is the process by which thruths are derived. Religion has it all backwards, it starts with a belief from which all else stems from. This means that the belief is unquestioned.

Science on the other hand has the investigations first and from that stems a belief, the belief is therefor able to change if evidence to the contrary emerges.

What I'm trying to say is that ALL religion has potential to be dangerous. Islam just happens to be in the forfront at this preiod in history.

It all depends on the "religion", IWNW. I don't consider my faith a religion anyway. To me it's a relationship. Aside from that, the Koran and Hadith are very different in their teachings compared to the bible.

I like getting involved in politics, but being a Christian comes first so my beliefs will based on my faith. (religion)

[BOLO]

A more enlightened response.

[Evergreen1]

Wow, that says it all!