What would the "ideal" America look like?

[Patriot]

Patriot slams door on Vinny's finger and pours shots of Jack Daniels for all.

[UncleVinny]

Glad I can be entertaining to you-all

Just for the record, I've read the bible 4 times cover to cover: Twice the King James version, once the Revised Standard Version, and once the New American Standard version. It took 6 years. So I can honestly say I did read the bible.

Second, Yes, the new gospel peace is definitely superior to the old ethic of an eye-for-an-eye. ANYone ('cept maybe folks here) would agree with that. Even so, mankind, especially in the West, has evolved at least something that is superior, as we do not execute every murderer.

Third, yes, the way one would approach a man beating his wife is certainly similar in the abstract approach to violence as that approach used by nation agains nation. I KNOW you are smart enough to think abstractly, and with a wee bit of effort make a comparison of treating a person the way a nation treats another nation. It's meant to be a symbolic arguement. The ethics involved are quite similar, as mostly we are talking about how to handle despots like Saddam and his boys, as opposed to the whole nation of Iraq.

You can see therefore, that if Saddam killed 100,000 people that there is no logic in US killing 100,000 people, but rather, since we in the West know how civilized people behave,we would try to be saving lives, not killing them. I think we can all agree on that. We may have differences on how to stop Saddam from killing people; some would want to invade the country, while others would want to continue the use of sanctions and inspections, as was the case when bush took office.

All I'm saying is that an Ugly American would try to impose forced compliance with a Western lifestyle, while a more enlightened approach would allow the Iraqis to choose something closer to those forms of government that work for them.

[Ian]

Ian thanks Patriot and gets snot-slingin drunk

Just for the record, I've read the bible 4 times cover to cover

I've read it 6 times and I read the Koran 8 and the Torah 15 so.... Who cares? That doesn't make your point any more valid than ours, if anything it shows that you are a man with a lot of time on your hands.

Second, Yes, the new gospel peace is definitely superior to the old ethic of an eye-for-an-eye.

You still haven't addressed Jesus in the Temple. That certainly wasn't peaceful. I would think that you would have realized this on at least the 3rd read through.

while others would want to continue the use of sanctions and inspections, as was the case when bush took office.

And how many sanctions and inspection trips did there have to be before it was alright on the Vinny meter to take action? Please give us some solutions and stop speaking in platitudes, its not becoming.

All I'm saying is that an Ugly American would try to impose forced compliance with a Western lifestyle, while a more enlightened approach would allow the Iraqis to choose something closer to those forms of government that work for them.

I find it funny how you missed capitalizing our presidents name yet gave that distinction to your Ugly American comment.

[BOLO]

Just for the record, I've read the bible 4 times cover to cover

Readin is one thing, comprehension is another.
You read it you just did not understand it. It's more than words.

You can see therefore, that if Saddam killed 100,000 people that there is no logic in US killing 100,000 people

Aww Gee. Why isn't it 200,000 or 300,000 or even.....oh...say...two million. There's a nice round number.
Yo. Dr vinny, you need a new playbook of shopworn, worn out, tired, cliches.
Wait for it. Dean is on the way to write you all a new farrrrrrrrr.........farrrrr left hand book. New cliches and everything. Exciting huh?
The Shots were good Patriot, where did you get all the fingers on the floor?

[UncleVinny]

"You still haven't addressed Jesus in the Temple. "

He overturned a few tables! That's just a WEEEEE bit different than the "shock and awe" military invasion of another country!! Why do you cling to one minor display of frustration and use that to justify the literal killing of people?
Could it be you are filled with anger and rage, which has nothing to do with divine inspiration???
Surely you can see the overwhelming message from this great spiritual leader was that we love our enemies, that we try to gain an appreciation for the predicament they are in.
No, something just doesnt jibe between the teachings of Christ and the invasion of Iraq, hard as you want to believe it.

Just image the two of us coming before our Maker.
One says, "Oh, I am so sorry we invaded Iraq."
One says, "We really kicked some butt over there"
and tell me who would be more ashamed?

[UncleVinny]

"You still haven't addressed Jesus in the Temple. "

He overturned a few tables! That's just a WEEEEE bit different than the "shock and awe" military invasion of another country!! Why do you cling to one minor display of frustration and use that to justify the literal killing of people?
Could it be you are filled with anger and rage, which has nothing to do with divine inspiration???
Surely you can see the overwhelming message from this great spiritual leader was that we love our enemies, that we try to gain an appreciation for the predicament they are in.
No, something just doesnt jibe between the teachings of Christ and the invasion of Iraq, hard as you want to believe it.

Just image the two of us coming before our Maker.
One says, "Oh, I am so sorry we invaded Iraq."
One says, "We really kicked some butt over there"
and tell me who would be more ashamed?

[UncleVinny]

Thanks for the compassionate convervatism there, Pat.

I stand by what I said. I still don't see any reasoned response to that.

[JacobBo79by]

Wow, I haven't read the bible once. Where do you find the time? The ideal America? Why not the ideal world?

[Patriot]

Jacob,


Looks like your thought process is a ball in the gutter at the logical bowling alley.


Here's why.


You want to expand idealism from one country to the entire world. So in that same spirit, let's expand it from the world to the galaxy. Instead of the ideal world, why not the ideal galaxy? One that would entail exploration of, and life on, planets and spacecraft? Religious tolerance for every comet. Surely you want that, don't you? Well, so do I. The only way that'll happen is via the American space industry. Yep. Don't think for a minute that Ali Ahmad Abu is going to be forking over funds for space exploration anytime soon, what with his catastrophic level of technological inadequacy and cultural ingorance. And the French-- well, you can bet they're not smart enough to figure out how to even wire a rocket piston.


You go ahead and play Dark Ages while we concentrate on the one nation in this world which has the resources and stamina to achieve literally any objective, so long as it is led correctly.

[FruitandNut]

Speaking as someone who is rated as 7th chakra, I am amazed that Patriot chooses the Gunfight at the OK Corral to get all nostalgic about - it was hardly America's finest hour. It was more a fight involving villians, a ruthless personality and an alcoholic dentist. America's finest hour was the support of Britain's Finest Hour (700 aircraft against 2500-3000) during WW2.


There has never been an ideal America, much as there has been no ideal UK - it is something to do with human fallibility. America is riddled with mythology like the rest of us - the West was not won, it was stolen - white settlers first scalped and used scrotums as tobacco pouches - the native tribes just copied.

[Patriot]

Fruity Nutcase,



Much as I'm impressed with your self-ascribed rating from an invalid religion, I fear you inferred what was not stated. I never said that OK Corral was America's finest hour (although I can assure you that the Battle of Britain, to which you refer, was by no means our finest hour either). By the way, I knew one of your pilots-- David Glaser-- who flew in that battle. A brave day for Britain, certainly, but not the shining star of American history.


Regarding the OK, you wrote:


^{It was more a fight involving villians, a ruthless personality and an alcoholic dentist.}


No need to tell us what it was. We already know. And Doc Holiday, the dentist to whom you refer, became famous only because he chose to stand next to Wyatt Earpe that day. It invokes a remembrance of an era in the US when good trumped bad. Those were the days before police corruption and the days when citizens rallied around the good guys on their own accord.


As for your mentioning of Westward expansionism "stealing" land, the pre-existent tribes stole land from each other and, as Bolo noted, lived the way they did only because they had no recourse to technology. I daresay your British did more than enough stealing from the Scotch and Irish, who to this day are blowing up bombs to rid themselves of your tyrannical influence (be it religion, politics, etc).


I'm also well aware, due to the sudden influx of new members, that some of you are the same person.

[JacobBo79by]

Here we go-America-world police, now galaxy police. Tell me, is there anything better than being an American?

[Ian]

JacobBo79by said:

Here we go-America-world police, now galaxy police. Tell me, is there anything better than being an American?

Tobacco pouches made from scrotums?

[scrap]

Yea I believe they had a real ball making those things.
They most have been nuts.
etc, etc, etc.......

[Patriot]

Jacob the Liar,


You asked:


^{Here we go-America-world police, now galaxy police. Tell me, is there anything better than being an American?}


The short answer, frankly, is no.