Sorry: Pro-war think tank: Al-qaida up to 18000

[Paratrooper]

Pro-war institute
International Institute for Strategic Studies (London, England)
www.iiss.org/news.php?PHPSESSID=9a065b3a78a9263ec755faeefe29e6a2

Financial Times (London, England)
In its annual strategic survey, the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) says al-Qaeda's financial network has survived largely intact, and that the war in Iraq has brought new recruits to its ranks.
www.iiss.org/news-more.php?itemID=803

Reuters:
A leading London think tank said on Tuesday that recruitment to al-Qaeda had accelerated as a result of the Iraq war. The International Institute for Strategic Studies said the group now had more than 18,000 militants ready to strike.

The following two newspapers and a TV station took the story from the Associated Press:

Seattle Post Intelligencer, May 25
seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apmideast_story.asp?category=1107&slug=Al%20Qaida

Bennington Banner, Vermont, May 26
www.benningtonbanner.com/Stories/0,1413,104~8676~2172124,00.html

KJRH (channel 2), Tulsa, Oklahoma
2worksforyou.com/news/world/p0676.shtml

Far from being crippled by the U.S.-led war on terror, al-Qaida has more than 18,000 potential terrorists scattered around the world and the war in Iraq is swelling its ranks, a report said Tuesday.

Al-Qaida is probably working on plans for major attacks on the United States and Europe, and it may be seeking weapons of mass destruction in its desire to inflict as many casualties as possible, the International Institute of Strategic Studies said in its annual survey of world affairs.

[MO]

The number was estimated at 20,000 on 9-11-01!
The difference is that now, they are fighting our military in their back yards instead of killing our civilians. They are coming out of their holes.

[Paratrooper]

MO said:

The number was estimated at 20,000 on 9-11-01!
The difference is that now, they are fighting our military in their back yards instead of killing our civilians. They are coming out of their holes.

dude, hey dude, read carefully, please!

The report says that Al-qaida "grew" to 18,000, not "shrink" to 18,000.

the report also says that Al-qaida grew to 18,000 "around the world". they are not all in Iraq.

also, the report says that the financial structure of Al-qaida "remained intact".

the report says that the war on Iraq did not reduce terrorist threat!

and that is the drift you get, dude!

[MO]

cbs2.com/topstories/topstories_story_146165752.html

"The estimate of 18,000 fighters was based on intelligence estimates that al Qaeda trained at least 20,000 fighters in its training camps in Afghanistan before the United States and its allies ousted the Taliban regime. In the ensuing war on terror, some 2,000 al Qaeda fighters have been killed or captured, the survey said. "

[Paratrooper]

ok, dude, you're right on that one. 20,000 down to 18,000. But, that was due to war on Afghanistan, not war on Iraq.

Also, the same article you quoted from KCBS says:

"Al Qaeda still has a functioning leadership despite the death or capture of key figures, and estimates suggest al Qaeda operates in more than 60 nations around the world, the International Institute of Strategic Studies said in its Strategic Survey 2003-4.

The terrorist group poses a growing threat to Western interests and attacks are likely to increase, the institute said."

see that? dude? "growing threat"?
"60 nations around the world"?

the war on iraq didn't do much good, did it?

[MO]

I'm not a "dude," Jesse!

The war on Iraq has removed a brutal dictator that harbored terrorists within his country.-
Iraqi official at 9-11 plot meeting
U.S. finds documents tying Saddam's man to al-Qaida www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38685
The war in Iraq has caused other rogue nations to disarm and cooperate in the war on terror. Libya is a good example of that.

[Paratrooper]

rogue nation? what rogue nation? Saddam? Saddam didn't even have WMD, how could he be rogue nation?

you mean, his 1991 invasion of Kuwait? we beat him back, didn't we?

dude, what ya talkin' bout? rogue nation? (sorry, you ain't no dude, i'll call you Sir)

the same policies that prevented Saddam from acquiring WMD (if he ever really intended to), such as sanctions, containment, inspection, diplomatic pressure, can work for Libya, too!! Right? Sir MO?

what other rogue nation is there? Axis of evil, Iran?

gee, why are the Iranians so anti-US? let's look at history, ok, Sir?

Dictator!! that's what! Dictator the Shah of Iran, supported by Uncle Sam for decades. Ruthless dictator! so the Iranian people overthrew him, following Ayatolla Khomeini!! 1979!!!

so, how do you get Iranians to stop being anti-American? easy, Sir MO! apologize! apologize to the Iranians for the decades of oppression by the Shah of Iran, supported by the U.S.A.!!!


Iraq war is a truly unnecessary war!!!!! $150 billion, 800 dead soldiers, and what, about 4000, 5000, 6000 injured soldiers? world-wide anti-Americanism!! Increased Al-qaida threat!!


too costly, too costly, too costly!!! Sir MO!

[MO]

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension, Jesse, or are you just ignoring the points I have already made?

Iran was much better off under the Shah.

You're just being nasty like a typical liberal and obviously not interested in debate.

[Paratrooper]

who earns respect from others? those who apologize and admit to mistakes!!!

who earns despice and hatred? those who refuse to apologize and admit mistakes!!!

world-wide anti-Americanism, now!!! right now!!! why? Sir dude? because America (Bushie) refuses to admit mistakes!!


look at history dude!!

in 1999, Amnesty International published a report documenting 36 years, yes 36 years (1954 - 1990) of U.S. support of Guatemalan military dictators. U.S. trained Guatemalan army to burn villages, massacre villagers, rape peasant women, torture men women & children!! they did all this just because the peasants want to stop rich people from taking peasant land and turn into coffee and banana plantations and get even richer!!!

and guess what? Sir dude? Clinton apologized to Guatemala in 1999, even though Clinton had nothing to do with U.S. atrocities!!!

Clinton apologized, yes, apologies, Sir dude!!! He apologized in Guatemala, right there, right after the Amnesty International report was published.

read it yourself, Sir:
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/daily/march99/clinton11.htm
Washington Post, dude!! 1999! this story was published in so many papers across USA!!! dude!!

Apologies earn respect, much respect, Sir MO!! and apologies can stop the world from hating the USA!!

[MO]

I don't know what you're talking about.

If Clinton did such a wonderful job at making the world love us, why did 9-11 happen? Bin Laden declared war on us during his administration and terror attacks increased in intensity and frequency through the 90s. He gave up three opportunities to capture Bin Laden and gutted our intelligence.

You guys can suck up all the crap the wussified, womanly media sells you and believe it's the truth. I know better. Mad men can't be reasoned with.

[Paratrooper]

MO said:

I don't know what you're talking about.

If Clinton did such a wonderful job at making the world love us, why did 9-11 happen? Bin Laden declared war on us during his administration and terror attacks increased in intensity and frequency through the 90s. He gave up three opportunities to capture Bin Laden and gutted our intelligence.

You guys can suck up all the crap the wussified, womanly media sells you and believe it's the truth. I know better. Mad men can't be reasoned with.

bin Laden, madman! yes he is madman! no doubt.

bin Laden and 18,000 Al-Qaida fighers! mad men! Sir MO! they are mad men!

They hate America, and the whole Arab world, the whole Muslim world, hate America!!

why? why? why? why dude?

why didn't bin Laden blow up New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, Italy? Sir MO! dude!

Why did bin Laden blow up World Trade Center in America? He knew America had the military power to revenge, right?? right? New Zealand cannot fight back, right? so why did bin Laden pick the most powerful nation in the world to blow up?

why is the Arab world, the Muslim world hating America?? Sir MO?

well, let's look at history, dude!

Rewind, let's rewind to 1948, the founding of Israel!!! In 1947, 1948, American Jews were split. Some American Jews say we should work with Palestinians peacefully to allow the new state of Israel to be established, dude! Some American Jews say we should just kill and kill and kill the Palestinians who refuse to allow Israel to be established. yes, kill, Sir MO, kill!!! Which American Jews won? well, the camp that said, kill kill kill, won!!! dude! So, in 1948, Israeli general Ben Gurion, with the help of U.S. and U.K., invaded Palestine, killed 5000 Palestinians and made 70,000 Palestinian refugees. dude!!! 70,000 Palestinian refugees fled fled and fled to Jordan and Lebanon!! dude! The U.S. and the U.K. helped with that!!!

let's rewind further back, dude.

Who kicked the Jewish people out of Ancient Israel? Why did the Jewish people all leave Ancient Israel long ago? No no no, the Arabs did not kick them out. Not the Arabs. It was the Assyrians. The Assyrians has long been extinct. yes, extinct people, the Assyrians, dude! The Assyrians were not Arabs!! Sir MO!!

So, if the Palestinians and the Arab people did not commit any crime against the Jewish people, then why were they killed and driven from their homes!! why why why? no crime, no punishment, right?? no crime, no punishment!!!


who killed the Jews? 6 million Jews!!! dude! 6 million! Germany, the Nazis, right? Nazi exterminated 6 million Jews!!

criminals should be punished right? no crime, no punishment, right?

If Germany killed 6 million Jews, then Germany should have given some of its land to the Jews, as the "Jewish homeland", right? Sir MO? Jews had only 3 million people in 1948. That was a small number! A small piece of land in Germany could take 3 million Jews.

Yes, Jewish homeland in a piece of Germany!! not Palestine!! Palestinians did not commit crime against the Jews!! no Sir MO! no crime, no punishment!!!


so, now you understand why the Arabs and the Muslim world hate America??

It was the Jews, the U.S. and the U.K.!!! In 1948, they killed 5000 Palestinians and drove 70,000 Palestinians homeless, just to establish the State of Israel!!! The Arabs did not commit any crime against the Jews!!! The Jews invaded Palestine!!!

[scummybear]

There is no such place as Palestine, brain-trust.

[scummybear]

www.jpost.com/com/Archive/13.Jul.1998/Columns/Article-3.html

[MO]

Scummy bear is right! There is no such place as Palestine and never has been. You're history is very distorted, Paratrooper, but I'll cut you a break since you probably went to government school. I'll just cut and paste what I already posted in the Israel thread to set the record straight. I'm sure you won't take notice of it. It's so much more gratifying for the self loathing liberals to blame America first.


The link I provided above does a good job of the basic history in a flash presentation.
jewishinternetassociation.org/historynutshell/conflict.html

This article was writen by Hal Lindsey. www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33506
Who are the Palestinians?

One of the most misunderstood issues today is the question of "Who are the Palestinians"? The truth about this matter has been so deliberately obscured that even to raise the question will seem strange to most readers.

In my book, "The Everlasting Hatred, the Roots of Jihad," I trace the history of the people now being called the "Palestinians." The land of Israel became known as Palestine after the Roman destruction of Israel in A.D. 70. It was ruled by many different invaders for the following 19 centuries.

In the 7th century, the Muslims took control of Palestine for the first time. From A.D. 635 until 1917, the Muslims ruled it, with only a few interruptions by the European Crusaders. During that span of time, the land was reduced to total desolation. Many people who traveled the land in the 19th century remarked on the fact that Palestine was as desolate as the moon and very few people lived there.

In 1867, Mark Twain remarked about his visit to the Holy Land in his book, "The Innocents Abroad." He lamented, "Stirring scenes occur in the valley [of Jezreel] no more. There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent – not for 30 miles in either direction. There are two or three small clusters of Bedouin tents, but not a single permanent habitation. One may ride 10 miles hereabouts and not see 10 human beings."

By all eyewitness accounts of that era, Palestine was a total desolation. There were virtually no trees and no people. Because of lack of trees, the weather changed and it rarely ever rained. The irrigation systems of the once fertile valleys were all destroyed, rendering most areas into malaria-ridden swamps. The terraces of the mountainsides were torn down, causing terrible erosion that left only barren rocks. This was the condition of Palestine by the beginning of the 19th century.

It was at this time that Jews began to flee severe persecutions in Russia and Eastern Europe. In the mid-1800s, some Jews came to Palestine and, with the generous aid of some successful Jews like the Rothschilds, began to buy property from Muslim Ottoman Turks. The Muslims thought the land was worthless anyway, so they sold it to the "dumb Jews" for extremely inflated prices.

To everyone's amazement, the Jews were very successful at reclaiming the land. Many of them died from malaria and the rigorous life the work demanded, but they performed an agricultural miracle that made the land very productive again. As a result of their success, poor migrant workers from the surrounding Muslim countries began to flood in to work for the Jews. The Jews literally became victims of their own success – almost all of the people calling themselves "Palestinians" today are the descendants of those migrant workers.

Much more is said and documented on this subject in my book. But the main point is this: The Muslims have repeatedly shown they understand these things. Since they know that the so-called "Palestinians" are not a homogeneous people, but rather a mixed conglomerate of workers with no cohesive organizational or political skills, they have repeatedly not given them a state.

When the Hashemite Tribe, who were rulers over Mecca and Medina for centuries, were driven out by the Saudis, the British gave them control over the vastly greater numbers of "migrant workers" in Trans Jordan. The British said this would be, in effect, "The State of Palestine." Instead, the Hashemites, who make up only about 20 percent of the population, turned it into their own kingdom and called it the Kingdom of Jordan.

When the Jordanians and Egyptians controlled the so-called West Bank and the Gaza Strip for 19 years (1948 to 1967), there was never a thought of giving the disorganized mass of "migrant workers" a state. Why? Because they knew there was no cohesive, homogeneous people known as "Palestinians."

The current efforts of Jordan and Egypt (and all the rest of the Muslim Middle East nations) to give these same people a state is clearly a ploy to get a foothold inside Israel. It is a strategic accommodation to establish a base from which the final assault against Israel can be made. What they couldn't do militarily is now being facilitated through the United States and the E.U.

Muslims will never accept a permanent presence of infidels in what they claim is sacred Islamic soil. Especially Jewish infidels for which the Koran reserves its most vehement condemnations. In their minds, the Koran and Allah will not let them accept Jews in what they view as their third holiest site.

The United States had better learn these things, or we will find ourselves guilty of facilitating the destruction of God's people, to whom the Word of God says the land belongs forever. God will not let that happen, but He will certainly judge those who have any part in trying to do it.

God warned: "Therefore thus says the Lord God: 'Surely I have spoken in My burning jealousy against the rest of the nations and against all Edom [Arabs], who took MY LAND to themselves as a possession, with whole-hearted joy and spiteful minds, in order to plunder its open country ... But you, O mountains of Israel, you shall shoot forth your branches and yield your fruit to MY PEOPLE ISRAEL, for they are about to come.'" (Ezekiel 36: 5, 8 NKJ)