Israel

[MO]

First of all, you quoted the article I posted, not me. And second this thread is not about Christianity verses Judaism.. The author of the article is a devout Christian who writes books and has a TV show about world events in relation to Bible prophecy. Of course Jews can't perfectly follow the law! If you're a Christian you should know that. THAT'S WHY JESUS HAD TO COME! The total depravity of man does not change the words that are written in the prophesies of the O.T.

[Ted]

But if the author is devoutly Christian, why is he claiming the Israeli Jews are God's chosen people? In accordance with Christian scriptures, anyone who converts to Christianity is a child of God. Certainly people can't follow God's intentions flawlessly--no one can keep the ten commandments--but if I was Jewish, believed all of the Old Testament, and wanted to go to heaven, I would find myself keeping the sacrifices and rituals. That's a significant part of Judaism--the only possibility for one's sins to be forgiven--and virtually no modern Jews practice it.

[MO]

Ted- Go to this link: www.jhm.org/faq.asp
and click on-
Israel and the Jewish People
Hope this helps!

[RussianJewishAthiest]

I wouldnt mind no support fo israel as long as US put no pressure on it politicly to agree with any of its neighbors to peace.

Israel would have steamrolled all if its terrorist neighbors if not for US suppresing its ability to defend itself in some ways. Personally I think US should go into slight isolation in this issue and europe too let israelies and arabs duke it out... We know who would win then let em settle it. Somehow isreal won its wars before Us support I doubt it wouldn't without it.

But as long as they are taking the dough they will be obligated to dance to the fiddle a bit.

Personally I blame clinton for arabs resurging and demanding land from Israel even though they commited so many crimes they themselves should be driven to the sea. I still remember when wtc got blown up palestinians were cheering on the streets and dancing. The only countries in mid east that showed sorrow or compassion were turkey / iran besides israel. I live in nyc btw brooklyn. Clinton with his pro-arab terrorist give land for peace ideals just fed them what they wanted and they started terrorising more because now they thought it would get them more and more concessions until israel wouldn't exist. Barak was gonn give them 97% of the territories back even half of jerusalem but that wasn't enough noooo they wanted everything.

And syria shouldn't get 1 inch of golan heights back. But should be attacked and beaten into submission for supporting terrorits. Why should they get any land? for facilitating 20+ years of terrorism against israel ?

[MO]

The entire Arab world would pile on. Do you know how much they are outnumbered? No, we have a duty to help them.

[Torremalku]

Two reasons for U.S. to support Israel:

Historical ally ever since WWII

Only ally in Middle East

(no I don't consider Saudi Arabia an ally)

[Ian]

Neither Israel or the rest of the middle east is an ally of the US. Remember the Liberty?

We should just butt out and let them consume each other, there is no obviously postive outcome from us siding with any of the countrys.

[Ted]

I think we should retake Constantinople. ;D

[RussianJewishAth]

honestly speaking isreal should have never let arabs live in it after 1967 or the last war they had. they shoulda forcebly deported all the arabs they had to surrounding countries kept sinai and all of the territory of israel. put all the ararb populations to the borders and let em die or embraced by other arab countries but nooo they had to let em stay. Paying for it now to some degree but the wall will fix it. Most of the palestianians will start to leave west bank and gaza as soon as its complete. Cause their almost only source of labour will dry up and they have no industry or self sustaining commerce of their own. Thats why they moan so much about it. Israel switched to immigrant labor you know from thailand worker visas for 6-18 months they get shipped in and out much better no squablings. Better then arabs who take the salary and use it to support hamas which is litteraly spitting in the face of your employer.

I completely agree with you mo on reply#14 palestinians are just arabs who made a new name to use it against israel. But notice in my previous reply I said dont support israel and dont tell it what to do let it roll over the arabs surrounding it expand its borders and push out all those arabs who live on israeli territory into them as indemnity for oppressing their state.

[DeoDuce]

Angmar said:

That being said, I still can't perceive the concept of taking sides? Why take a side at all? Why not side with Palestine? In the US, the majority is supposed to rule, and I sincerely doubt that the majority of US citizens want to send so many funds overseas.

The US sides with Israel instead of Palestine because Israelis do not strap bombs to themselves on walk onto schoolbuses full of children and then proceed to detonate the bomb, blowing eight- and nine-year old limbs all over the place. It's barbaric.

[Zaraspook]

Angmar said:

Israel at the moment is litte more than a leech on American society. I simply can't understand why the US would support a nation that has a highly disproportionate "benefits:expenses" ratio. The US should concentrate on problems at home before it gives an arm and leg to support a country virtually no one wants to.

You simply don’t know what you are talking about. For every dollar of foreign financial aid the US gives Israel, it gets 3 or more back in return. For instance, Israel has the fourth most powerful military in the entire world and is more than capable of defending itself in the rough neighborhood of the Middle East. Because the Middle East is absolutely strategically vitally important to our national security, if the US didn’t have Israel as a close ally in the region, the US would be forced to maintain military bases throughout the Middle East at the cost of many more billions of dollars than we currently spend now providing aid to Israel or, for that matter, Egypt and Jordan too. As a matter of fact, all of them combined!

Not to also mention that most of the financial aid that is provided to Israel is spent right back here in the US for the procurement of weapons and other products. These sales are handled through a special department in the Pentagon at non-discounted prices. Remove that aid going to Israel and thousands of workers currently employed here in the US would lose their jobs.

Moreover, through such things as weapons testing and other various technological innovations that we’ve garnered from Israel through the years because of our close relationship with Israel, the US has saved far more billions of dollars than we have provided to Israel. The US/Israel relationship is a win/win relationship for both of our respective countries.

Now, contrast that with the foreign financial aid we provide to the Arab world. Take Egypt, for instance, what do we get back in return? Rabid anti-Americanism and hate propaganda vilifying both Israel and the US!

[Zaraspook]

Angmar said:

It's two different concepts--should we stop a nation/individual that causes problems for ourselves and others, or should we support a nation/individual when the direct result will be causing problems for ourselves and others?

You seem to be buying into the propaganda or hype that points the finger at Israel and the Jews as the root cause of all the problems in the world. Reality is the Arabs and radical Muslims the world over have been killing themselves and "infidels" for centuries. Long before Israel was born. If the West is foolish enough to throw Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East, to the sharks and allow a second holocaust of Jews to happen, it will only embolden the Arab world and radical Muslims the world over to make even greater demands from the infidels and prosecute more and even greater violence.

Moreover, Israel is by far not the only point of conflict between the forces of radical Islam and the non-Muslim world. Check out the brutal radical Islamic violence taking place in places like Jammu and Kashmir, in Chechnya, The Sudan, Somalia, Nigeria, Indonesia, Thailand, China, and many other places around the world. Reality is in almost every instance wherever the Islamic worlds and infidel worlds collide there is almost always aggression by Muslims. Take a good look around the world.

That the world more or less only focuses only on Israel as the only point of conflict is primarily due to a massive propaganda campaign and media blitz against Israel stemming from secret agreements originating back in the 70s, known as the Euro-Arab Dialogue, that are only now coming to the fore, and which called for close cooperation between the European states and the Arab League for the destruction of Israel.

In return for favorable support for the Arab world’s war against Israel, open door and favorable immigration policies for Arabs immigrating to Europe, and a distancing from the US the Euros got back in return assurances for cheap oil and open Arab markets for European trade and commerce. These agreements first came to fruition in latter 1973 in response to the Arab League’s oil embargo, which was implemented after its failure to defeat Israel again in its 1973 Yom Kippur War and have been secretly maintained through the years. It was one of the reasons France, Belgium, and the Germans were so adamant against Saddam’s removal. The Euro-Arab Dialogue represents a major appeasement concession to the Arab Muslim world and probably has done more to fuel radical Islamic terrorism than anything else in recent history.

[Zaraspook]

Angmar said:

That being said, I still can't perceive the concept of taking sides? Why take a side at all? Why not side with Palestine? In the US, the majority is supposed to rule, and I sincerely doubt that the majority of US citizens want to send so many funds overseas.

Because the Palestinian cause is built on lies, propaganda, deceits, and innuendo, not to mention unjustifiable Islamic terrorism and suicide mass murders inflicted on innocent unarmed civilians, and Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. The conflict never was a conflict between just the so-called Palestinians and the Israelis; it was always and still is a conflict between Israel and the entire Arab and Islamic worlds. Israel just happens to sit on what the Arab and Islamic worlds considers to be holy Islamic land, and Allah forbids the conceding of holy Islamic land to infidels.

Hence, the conflict is not about creating a state for the Palestinians. The British tried to give them a state back in 1937 and they rejected it, the UN tried too in 1947, but it was rejected, and the Israelis have repeatedly tried to give them a Palestinian state. Reality is the only state the so-called Palestinian and the Arab and Islamic worlds are interested in is one which is completely devoid of Jews and that comprises all of the current territory of Israel.

Regarding US support for Israel, you’re wrong again. Reality is US support for Israel has never been stronger in this country and crosses over both ideological boundaries. Now Europe, on the other hand, is a different story altogether, because they sold their souls to the Arabs and the lives of the Israeli Jews in return for cheap Arab oil and open Arab markets a long time ago.

[Zaraspook]

Guest-Ian said:

Remember the Liberty?

Oh, you still haven’t heard yet? The truth unequivocally and definitely came out last year as a result of moratoriums on classified information finally expiring and being lifted, and just like the results of all previous investigations before, the Liberty incident was proven to be nothing more than a very unfortunate accident. End of story! Sort of like when us Americans accidentally shot down an Iranian passenger jet loaded with passengers back a few years ago. Sh!t happens in the fog of war!

[KGBagent]

Why should we? You answered your own question. Perhaps because they are a sovereign nation and ally and terrorist thugs with to drive her into the sea.

Do you realize that both Israel and the US of A have both acted, and still are acting like terrorists? Except they can come up with better excuses than that of the "insulant terrorists." Nor does America try to go out of it's way to kill civilians, but they do. And in very very high numbers. 10,000 I believe. And yeah sure, you can claim all you want about how we are helping them...

but you're wrong. So far, we haven't helped them all that much. so far, we have just replaced one complete asshole of a dictatorship, with another milder asshole of a dictatorship.