Post by ItWillNeverWork on Nov 3, 2003 19:55:15 GMT -5
"Answer: every country in the world."
You seem to have a misunderstanding of what it is I am complaining about. My complaints are not about US and EU trade policy with China, my complaints lie with our trade policy towards countries in Africa, latin America, Asia and Eastern Europe. The countries which are NOT communist, the countries that are members of the WTO and have openned up their markets to us.
Maybe I'm rushing ahead here, and not meaning return the patronising compliment you payed earlier I might as well spell out to you "some basics about foreign trade". Basics that aren't biased untruths that is.
So, where do we begin? How about 1944? Here is a quote from Alvin Tofflers 'The Third Wave' that I found summed up the history quite nicely.
"After World War 2 the United States stood as the chief creditor nation in the world. it had the most advanced technology, the most stable political structure--and an irresistable opportunity to move into the power vacuum left behind by it's shattered competitors as they were forced to withdraw from the colonies.
As early as 1941 U.S. financial strategists had begun to plan for a postwar reintegration of the world economy along lines more favourable to the United States. At the Bretton Woods conferance in 1944, held under U.S. leadership, forty-four nations agreed to set up two key integrative structures--The International Monetary Fund and the World Bank.
The IMF compelled it's members to peg their currency to the American dollar or gold--most of which was held by the United States. (By 1948, the United Stated possessed 72 percent of the whole worlds gold reserves.) The IMF thus fixed the basic relationships of the major world currencies.
The World Bank, meanwhile, at first established to provide postwar reconstruction funds to European nations, gradually began providing loans to the non-industrial countries, too. These were often for the pourpose of building roads, harbours, ports and "other infra-structure items" to facilitate the movement of raw materials agricultural exports to the second wave nations ('second wave nations' refers to industrial nations of the 20th century as oppose to nations with a mostly agricultural economy - added in my ItWillNeverWork).
Soon a third component was added to the system: The General Agreement on Tarriffs and Trade - GATT for short. This agreement, again promoted originally by the United States, set out to liberalise trade, which had the effect of making it difficult for the poorer, less technologically advanced countries to protect their tiny fledgling industries.
The three structures were wired together by a rule that prohibited the World Bank from making loans to any country that refused to join the IMF or to abide by the GATT."
Now fast forward to the present day. The GATT has been extended/added to and thus laid the foundations for what is now the World Trade Organisation, many countries are now bound by the decisions that the WTO makes.
Should all be going sweet, right? I mean a bit of free trade between cooperating countries can only do good, right? WRONG!!
ALL THAT EXISTS IS A FACADE. There is no free trade between member states of the WTO because the European Union and the United Stated continuously flout the principles of it by heavily subsidising their agriculture. As a result, farmers in the third world have no way of competing with farmers in developled nations because of the simple fact that the latter are given money for nothing.
To make matters worse, this subsidisation creates an excess of output in the EU and US agricultural sector, excess which is then eigther given as aid to the third world or flooded into their markets at prices local farmers cannot compete with. Whilst this may provide short term benefit for the consumer the long term effect on the local economy is a catastrophic.
Now can you understand the point I was attempting to make?
China has nothing to do with our policy towards other, less well developed, free market nations. Communism cannot be blamed for everything, the cold war is over and it is about time that the US and EU stopped using it as an excuse for its intransigence.
You seem to have a misunderstanding of what it is I am complaining about. My complaints are not about US and EU trade policy with China, my complaints lie with our trade policy towards countries in Africa, latin America, Asia and Eastern Europe. The countries which are NOT communist, the countries that are members of the WTO and have openned up their markets to us.
Maybe I'm rushing ahead here, and not meaning return the patronising compliment you payed earlier I might as well spell out to you "some basics about foreign trade". Basics that aren't biased untruths that is.
So, where do we begin? How about 1944? Here is a quote from Alvin Tofflers 'The Third Wave' that I found summed up the history quite nicely.
"After World War 2 the United States stood as the chief creditor nation in the world. it had the most advanced technology, the most stable political structure--and an irresistable opportunity to move into the power vacuum left behind by it's shattered competitors as they were forced to withdraw from the colonies.
As early as 1941 U.S. financial strategists had begun to plan for a postwar reintegration of the world economy along lines more favourable to the United States. At the Bretton Woods conferance in 1944, held under U.S. leadership, forty-four nations agreed to set up two key integrative structures--The International Monetary Fund and the World Bank.
The IMF compelled it's members to peg their currency to the American dollar or gold--most of which was held by the United States. (By 1948, the United Stated possessed 72 percent of the whole worlds gold reserves.) The IMF thus fixed the basic relationships of the major world currencies.
The World Bank, meanwhile, at first established to provide postwar reconstruction funds to European nations, gradually began providing loans to the non-industrial countries, too. These were often for the pourpose of building roads, harbours, ports and "other infra-structure items" to facilitate the movement of raw materials agricultural exports to the second wave nations ('second wave nations' refers to industrial nations of the 20th century as oppose to nations with a mostly agricultural economy - added in my ItWillNeverWork).
Soon a third component was added to the system: The General Agreement on Tarriffs and Trade - GATT for short. This agreement, again promoted originally by the United States, set out to liberalise trade, which had the effect of making it difficult for the poorer, less technologically advanced countries to protect their tiny fledgling industries.
The three structures were wired together by a rule that prohibited the World Bank from making loans to any country that refused to join the IMF or to abide by the GATT."
Now fast forward to the present day. The GATT has been extended/added to and thus laid the foundations for what is now the World Trade Organisation, many countries are now bound by the decisions that the WTO makes.
Should all be going sweet, right? I mean a bit of free trade between cooperating countries can only do good, right? WRONG!!
ALL THAT EXISTS IS A FACADE. There is no free trade between member states of the WTO because the European Union and the United Stated continuously flout the principles of it by heavily subsidising their agriculture. As a result, farmers in the third world have no way of competing with farmers in developled nations because of the simple fact that the latter are given money for nothing.
To make matters worse, this subsidisation creates an excess of output in the EU and US agricultural sector, excess which is then eigther given as aid to the third world or flooded into their markets at prices local farmers cannot compete with. Whilst this may provide short term benefit for the consumer the long term effect on the local economy is a catastrophic.
Now can you understand the point I was attempting to make?
China has nothing to do with our policy towards other, less well developed, free market nations. Communism cannot be blamed for everything, the cold war is over and it is about time that the US and EU stopped using it as an excuse for its intransigence.
