The Soul of The Right vs. the Soullessness of the

[Walter]

In her book "The New Thought Police," ultra-left feminist Tammy Bruce writes about the way she, and the LA Chapter of NOW, was treated when she and they objected to the national NOW's decision to give OJ Simpson a "pass" even though it was clear that he was an overtly cruel wife beater.

She organized a campaign and a march right after the verdict and had the following to say:

"...many conservatives crossed over their political and ideological boundaries and joined the fight, showing a true concern for the issues that transcend politics.

"Religious, pro-life, and other conservatives who wrote a check to Los Angeles NOW because it was the right thing to do changed me. It was then that I realized, although we disagreed on many issues, there were fundamental questions about values that truly separated conservatives from postmodern liberals. For me, that finally exposed by counterpoint the soullessness of the Left." (The New Thought Police, Tammy Bruce, p. 287-288)

This is as clear a statement of the primary difference between the conservatives and liberals.

Conservatives care about issues and values.

Liberals care only about their political posture.

[Peanut]

"Conservatives care about issues and values." - so i'm asusming that conservatives care for the well-being of the family? Reason number one why most are opposed to gay marriage. Too bad most conservatives (*and therefore most republicans) dont care enuff to give public health care to all families...

[Walter]

Peanut, "Too bad most conservatives (*and therefore most republicans) dont care enuff to give public health care to all families... "

Walter Too bad most liberals don't care enough to provide an adequate infrastructure to provide adequate health care to all families... "

To peanut, please describe the programs that the liberals put in place to "give" (your word) public health care to all families. After all, for five long years we have had a Davis lead Democrat administration in California with a totally failed and bankrupted health care system...and no Republicans to blame it on. The Democrats had the White House and Congress for two long years and simply raised taxes, but didn't do anything to provide adequate health care to all families...

Can you provide any basis to suggest that liberals really have any interest in "giving" health care to anyone?

Now, as for the right, there are numerous examples including the creation of many foundations and medical research facilities to deal with serious diseases including Aids, Cancer, Heart, Lungs, etc.

Back to my post. The quotation was from an ultra-Liberal feminist, not from a neoconservative. Perhaps you should read her book. You might learn something.

[MO]

Walter, you'll never be able to convince some of the "useful idiot" communist/ liberals that forcing people to give up their freedom in order to create a nanny state is not "compassion."

Tammy Bruce is an ultra left wing feminist but she is intellectually honest. Almost an oxymoron! I guess that's why so many conservatives are reading her book.

Peanut- We have a medical system that is partially socialized. Any one who presents in any public hospital is treated, regardless of their ability to pay. We have Medicare, Medicaid, Vaccines for Children Program, SSD, etc. I don't know why a Canadian would be complaining about how the US does not have complete socialized medicine. Misery loves company? You should be glad we have not taken all financial incentives out of all aspects of the health care industry. Otherwise you would have no new breakthrough drugs for your government to (first tax the hell out of you and then) "give" to you. Shall we compare US R&D to Canadian? I'd put Hopkins up against any of your little places.

[Peanut]

Walter, i speak as a canadian, and by no means mean to sound snide, but we have public health care. Created by many factions of government (dont know if you'll find this assuming or something to havea laugh over by there are two primary parties in canada the Liberal party (that is there OFFICIAL name, i kid you not) and the PC or Progressive Conservatives and again i kid you not).

I'm afraid i can't speak for your country, cuz i dont live there. But if we made it work, i'm sure you or any other country could as well. There are many other parties in canada mind you, not just libs and pc's, and yet we have public health care. I guess a country as "liberal" as canada, isn't that soulless after all.

MO, then explain why american's are buying OUR drugs? cuz their cheaper. Of course a hospital will not turn down anyone in need of treatment immediately, but afterwards, they must pay, regardless. Taxes pay for our public health care and for schools and whatever else needed. I'd rather have everyone pay a relatively fair amount, then private health care.

[Walter]

The post by peanut said, "Too bad most conservatives (*and therefore most republicans) dont care enuff to give public health care to all families... "

I suppose that means the "liberals" in Canada give public health care to families?

Gosh, I wonder who pays for that "gift?" Could it be the taxpayer?

Gosh, I wonder why so many Canadians cross south to get medical treatment when they want it rather than waiting months or years to get the same treatment in Canada?

Gosh, I wonder why there is a serious Doctor shortage in Britain where Doctors are paid a pittance under government sponsored socialized medicine?

BTW, a big thanks to the Canadians for providing the subsidy money that permits US residents an opportunity to buy the same drugs so much cheaper.

[MO]

MO, then explain why american's are buying OUR drugs?

Because of the American Federal Drug Administration. The high cost of drugs are because of government involvement. Many of the drugs that you are sending to Americans, were sent to you by America at a much cheaper cost because of your government buying in bulk. The major problem in the US with health care is too much government involvement and regulation. We are also subsidizing the whole freaking world, or we would not be having this conversation.

[Peanut1]

Again it's me Peanut, stupid thing wont lemme sign in.
Anyways, Walter, "I suppose that means the "liberals" in Canada give public health care to families?" - no the gov't does, it so happens that the liberal party as a majority in our cabinet right now. And no gov't would have a bill passed to make health care privatized.

"Gosh, I wonder who pays for that "gift?" Could it be the taxpayer?" - well duh. We recently had a provincial election (i'm in ontario) and the leader of the liberal party is quoting as saying: "I wont CUT your taxes, but i wont RAISE them either, we need that money for hospitals and education" (i am aware this is a sugarcoated response to not giving ontarians a cut break, but at least the money is goin to provide a greater good)

"Gosh, I wonder why so many Canadians cross south to get medical treatment when they want it rather than waiting months or years to get the same treatment in Canada?" - regardless of where canadians go for treatment, it's still covered by public health care plan, unless it's cosmetic or not covered by their insurance policy. So if we need to go to america, or europe, or south america for anything, it is still covered by our insurance.

"Gosh, I wonder why there is a serious Doctor shortage in Britain where Doctors are paid a pittance under government sponsored socialized medicine?" - that's britain, i care not for britain.

"BTW, a big thanks to the Canadians for providing the subsidy money that permits US residents an opportunity to buy the same drugs so much cheaper. " - no problem, anytime we help a struggling a nation, we're more then happy too ;D

MO, "Many of the drugs that you are sending to Americans, were sent to you by America at a much cheaper cost because of your government buying in bulk. " - uhhh, no they weren't.

"We are also subsidizing the whole freaking world" - no one asked you too...

[pukaman]

Apocalypse Bush!
Why care for the planet when the End Times are almost here? Vote Bush and
hop on the salvation train!
ÊÊ


By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist
Wednesday, September 8, 2004


Mark Morford's Notes & Errata column appears every Wednesday and Friday on
SF Gate, unless it appears on Tuesdays and Thursdays, which it never does. Subscribe to this column at sfgate.c
Ê


This is the great thing about rabid fundamentalism. You really just don't
have to give a damn.

ÊTake the environment. I mean, isn't it just a little pointless to care so
damn deeply about the air and the soil and the water and the stupid little
disposable animals on this silly spinning ball of expendable rock when the
Second Coming is imminent and a blood-soaked fire-breathin' Jesus who looks
remarkably like Mel Gibson will return very soon to smite the heathens and
the gays and the vegetarians and the Francophiles, and who will rescue all
those who worship patriarchy and country music and blue-chip oil portfolios?
You're goddamn right it is.

ÊLook. This much has become clear. Bush is, more than anything else, an
extreme fundamentalist Christian. He is widely regarded as the most openly
pious and sanctimonioous president in modern American history. He actually
preaches the GOP screed in evangelical churches across America. He panders
so slavishly to the anti-choicers and the Bible-thumpers and the homophobes
it makes Jerry Falwell swoon and giggle.

ÊAnd Bush actually says, out loud, that God speaks through him, and that God
is on our side [when] we bomb the living crap out of Afghanistan and Iraq and that
it is the Almighty's wish that we take control of these angry pip-squeak
nations and in so doing kill thousands of civilians and tens of thousands of
young Iraqi soldiers, as over 1,000 American soldiers are now dead over a
makeshift cause that never really existed. God wanted it this way, that's
why.

ÊBush has called Jesus his "favorite philosopher." He has claimed that the
act of being "born-again" saved him from a long, sad life of vaguely
homoerotic frat parties and repetitive binge drinking and going AWOL from
the National Guard, all so he could turn his full attention to righteously
ruining multiple businesses and then making Texas the most murderous and
polluted state in the union.

ÊBut, you know, why stop there?

ÊGod, of course, isn't just about the current Iraqi war. Bush understands
this. Nor is God just about slamming gays or creating nasty, isolationist
foreign policy. God is not merely about setting those gul-dang Muslim
heathens straight about who is the supreme big-daddy all-powerful
mega-righteous SUV-drivin' American-flag-wavin' God and who is just a
dimestore wannabe false idol scruffy Allah.

ÊBecause above all, God is nothing if not all about putting a quick and
fiery stop to all this Earthly nonsense ASAP. He is nothing if not all about
the coming apocalypse. And He is nothing if not all about saving those who
believe, as Bush does, that he is among the chosen to be saved.

ÊThis is the fundamentalist truth. And this is the BushCo maxim. The End
Times provide the ultimate meaning, the final straw, the only thing worth
caring about, because it defines the BushCo worldview like nothing else
except maybe embarrassing grammar and crushing deficits and a secret craving
for gin. You can see it in his sad, vacant eyes: Bush is absolutely
convinced that God is a Republican. Why else would He create all those cool
M-1 tanks and oil refineries and those neat deer-antler chandeliers?
Exactly.

ÊDo you see? Do you get it? If not, you haven't been reading nearly enough
of those silly pulpy sociopathic gazillion-selling "Left Behind" doomsday
books so frighteningly adored by the Christian Right. It's simple, really:
The world is gonna end real soon. The End Times are comin'. All the signs
are in place -- famine, war, disease, sodomy, fires, hurricanes, Avril
Lavigne -- and Bush, by instigating holy wars and inciting more terrorism
and burning through the planet's natural resources as fast as humanly
possible, is merely hastening the blessedly inevitable. As his fellow
fundamentalists say, God bless him.

ÊHey, it explains a lot, this view. It explain how Bush can just smirk and
mumble and, with one big, heartless shrug, dismiss the complete lack of WMD
and the loss of 1.6 million U.S. jobs and the nation's staggering $422
billion budget deficit. Pay down the national debt? Bah. Planet's going to
hell anyway, people. Stock up on nuclear missiles and get yourself an escape
pod. Can't afford one? Whatta shame.

ÊIt surely explains the general GOP hatred of gay marriage, of open-hearted
sex, of those wicked, sin-inducing vaginas (that harlot Eve is gonna pay,
dammit), of environmentalism, of caring about air quality and water quality
and the EPA and organic foods and homeopathic medicine and resource
management and the Alaska Wildlife Refuge and the U.N. and any country that
doesn't have a McDonald's and a Starbucks and a decent strip club for lonely
gin-soaked Republican expats.

ÊAnd it explains not only the outright contempt for any view other than
Bush's own, but the willingness to legislate that hatred, codify it, to make
it outright illegal to think or feel or love otherwise.

ÊLook at it this way: When you have an angry, patriotic God and the red-hot
promise of the juicy apocalypse on your side, there is no such thing as a
counter-argument. There is no such thing as competition. There is no such
thing as giving a damn what anyone else thinks.

ÊHow else do you explain it? How else can you understand the most
aggressive, war-hungry, abusive, nature-loathing, isolationist
administration in American history? How else can you explain BushCo's
overall "F" grade from every environmental organization in the world? How
can you explain his mauling of long-term Social Security planning? The
decimation of the idea of universal health care? A pre-emptive,
attack-first-ask-questions-never, warmongering policy that creates more
anti-U.S. hatred by the minute?

ÊHow can you explain the fact that every human rights organization on the
planet is appalled by Bush's actions? Guantanamo Bay to Abu Ghraib to John
Ashcroft to the Patriot Act to gutting funding for international women's
health care. Hey, if God had wanted us to care about other viewpoints, He
would've made everyone speak English. Can I get a "hell yeah?"

ÊThis lust for apocalyptica, then, is perhaps the best way we have to at
least partially understand the shamelessness of this administration's
policies and its blatant disregard for international law, its open hatred of
any nation that disagrees with us and the deep, profound concern only for
nations that either cower in our God-flexin' presence and/or have resources
that Bush's corporate pals are salivating to exploit.

ÊAnd it is the perhaps ultimate explanation for the Right's final cattle
call, its bitter war cry of a message, its exact parallel to every
pseudo-religious evangelical scam artist on late-night cable TV.

ÊListen, good people of America. If you just send your money to the party
and give up all that careful, nuanced thinking, if you just quit
questioning our decisions and load up on blind faith, it will all be OK and
you can have all the guns and fast food you want and those terrifying gays
will leave you alone because BushCo will take care of you and God will
reserve your seat on the glory train to salvation. Deal? Praise Jesus!
Praise Bush/Cheney! Hallelujah you are saved! Even as we are, you know,
doomed.

ÊIsn't bogus salvation fun?

[UncleVinny]

Great Post, Puka!

The worst part is that so many idiots believe him.
Flag waving morons follow the Peid Piper right over the cliff.

Odd, isn't it how they can twist the facts to make war look like it's the Will of God. Too bad!

If he is so pro-life, why are 20,000 Iraqis dead, and 1000 Americans. They distort true Christian teachings to make it appear nuking Saddam H. is somehow the holy thing to do. Now death becomes their salvation. How wrong can you get!??

They make it seem as if opposing the war is unpatriotic, and opposing their right-wing agenda is somehow opposing God. What a massive deception!

I think the neo-Cons just aren't that bright!

[Walter]

The Left is, in fact, soulless as the thread titel states.

Tammy Bruce is a Liberal, not a Leftie.

A real Liberal has principles (that's why Kerry detests the Liberal label so vehemently).

You should read Ms. Bruce's two books, "The Death of Right and Wrong" and "The New Thought Police." They will make clear that soul and principles separate the loony American Left from the principled American Liberal.

By the way, how about that Aussie Liberal, John Howard yesterday? Despite Kerry's open and active campaigning against him, he kicked serious butt!

And reaffirmed Australia's continued and enthusiastic support of the coalition in Iraq.

[UncleVinny]

What a joke!
Yeah, I wanne be right wing so I can kill Arabs, and then say God made me do it. What nonsense!
Pro-life, but make sure we kill thousands in the Middle East. Absurd! Such 'reasoning' is morally and spiritually bankrupt.

Meanwhile . . .
Odd story in the NY Times - - seems there's a box been spotted on the back of GW Bush during Friday's debate, under his jacket. Speculation is that it was a remote radio receiver, so he could receive answers from off-stage helpers during the debate.

I can just SEE Carl Rove with a joystick and Dick Cheney with a microphone, controlling the guy, can't you?!! Ha, ha! Right wing sure give me a laugh!

These colors don't run the world!